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The Clock is Ticking

We’re just about at the halfway point, and the Sabres are barely gasping for air at 18-17-4 on the season. Their 40 points put them four points out of eighth place. That’s certainly within reach, but keep in mind the team has not won back to back games since November 11th, almost two months ago. After lofty expectations to start the year, it’s been a frustrating season for fans of the team. Now almost like a cruel joke, the majority of fans within the Buffalo market can’t even watch the Sabres’ games on MSG. Well, once you hit rock bottom, the only way to go is up.

But that’s the real problem. This team hasn’t yet hit rock bottom. They’ve just been stuck in mediocrity ever since their President’s Cup winning season in 2006-2007. I can’t really blame the players as much as I would like to, since we’ve been asked to overvalue players who just aren’t really that talented. I can’t really even blame the previous administration, since Darcy Regier managed to stay on board when Terry Pegula purchased the team. Regier was in charge when the team failed to retain Danny Briere and Chris Drury, and countered by overpaying Derek Roy and Jason Pominville, and later Drew Stafford. He was in charge this summer when Pegula gave him free reign to break the bank in free agency. His response was to use almost every penny of available cap space, putting the Sabres in a tough spot to make moves at the trade deadline this season.

Sure, Regier has made some good moves throughout the years. Vanek’s contract has been a bargain for the most part. The Regehr trade this offseason was a great move. The farm system has been successful under his watch as well. The problem is, for whatever reason, the product on the ice just isn’t cutting it. That would bring us to his partner in crime, the second half of the longest tenured duo in professional sports, head coach Lindy Ruff. Lindy was the perfect man for the job in the early days of the post-lockout NHL. His high flying system found ways to exploit the new rules, and the success on the ice was almost immediate. The problem was, it didn’t work to make consistent deep runs in the playoffs. In the end, you needed physical play to match up with the big dogs. On top of this, the lack of fundamental defensive skills exhibited on the ice this season has been alarming. That’s on the coach.

Star-divide

Jeremy White on WGR said it best – the team is just stale. There’s been too big of a safety net hanging under them for too long. It’s starting to feel like the end of an era around the First Niagara Center these days. New owner, new name on the arena, new renovations…..same core group of players. The fact that those same players don’t seem to be responding to the pressure of having to win now is a testament to what they’ve been all along – stale. We get the same stale play, same stale responses to questions in the locker room, and same stale attitude on the ice.

All of this has caused the fans to become indifferent. The arena was dead on Tuesday night. Remember when I complained about the atmosphere a few weeks ago? That was nothing compared to the other night. At one point I heard an Oilers fan turn to his friend and say, "This is the quietest arena I’ve ever been in." That Oilers fan was two rows away from me. Many media members made that same point on Twitter last night. The play of the team has been so dull and unexciting that it’s causing us to lose our distinction of being one of the better fan bases in the NHL.

When this team started to hit the skids in late November, we all hoped it was just a road bump. We all thought we could just blame in on injuries. Sure, the injury bug has hit us hard, but every team has to deal with that. Sidney Crosby has only played in eight games this year and the Penguins are still in fifth place.

This year is beginning to feel eerily similar to last, but there are no promises of a run at the end to boost the team into the playoffs. Even if that happens, barely sneaking into the postseason and then ceremoniously losing in the first round isn’t going to cut it. The clock is ticking on this team, from the players, to the coach, to straight on up to the front office. Terry Pegula can support them in the media all he wants, but it’s hard to imagine he’ll sit back and watch his new investment wallow in their own sorrows every night without taking action this coming offseason.

The time to win is now, and Tuesday night’s win should be used as a spring board. The next five games can be considered an extremely important stretch. The Sabres play two games against Toronto, and one against Winnipeg, the two teams directly above them in the standings. They also play Carolina and the Islanders, the two worst teams in the Eastern Conference. There’s still time to salvage this season and make a run, and putting together a winning streak to get the fans back in the mix would be a good way to start. The return of Ville Leino, Tyler Ennis, and Tyler Myers should hopefully provide a spark as well. The question is, does this group have another run in them? Or are they already resigned to the fact that this is their farewell tour?

Comment 186 comments  |  4 recs  | 

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Pomers

has been playing to his contract this year (finally)

Go Sabres!

by drwho62 on Jan 5, 2012 10:29 AM EST reply actions  

Yes, and Roy usually outperforms his contract, though this year (so far) is an exception. Musical linemates doesn’t help that, though.

by TheTick on Jan 5, 2012 12:13 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

"Musical linemates"

That is a perfect summary of both the way the injuries have obliterated this team’s chances at developing chemistry and the way Ruff tends to rearrange the lineup throughout any given game.

by lassathrax on Jan 5, 2012 12:34 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Vanek Factor Anyone?

Maybe Roy isn’t producing this season and Pominville is because now Roy is not playing alongside Vanek, while Pominville plays his opposite wing? Ever think that it’s Vanek making the players stats look better or worse (if removed from his line, like Adam this year)? Who knows for sure… but just saying?

DC Chocolate City!

by djc1877 on Jan 6, 2012 2:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Trades

I think if this team does make any moves before the deadline it will be to sell. I dont know if we will bring anyone else in that can have an immediate impact but it would bode well for next year to open up some cap room.

Buffalo/ Rochester 2011! Thanks TP!

by thenewhockeytown on Jan 5, 2012 10:39 AM EST reply actions  

My trade proposal.

Miller, Stafford, Ennis, Gragnani for Getzlaf and Hiller.

Screw you MSG, and screw you TWC!
I want my Sabres!

by bflo on Jan 5, 2012 12:24 PM EST via Android app reply actions  

NOOOOOO

This would be a regrettable mistake. Getzlaf might help this team a lot and be a sizeable upgrade over either one of those forwards, but downgrading to Hiller would make it 1 step forward, 2 steps back. Throwing in the second forward and Gragnani only makes this move worse for the Sabres. I think many Sabres fans are extremely spoiled by Miller (or Hasek) to the extent that they can’t identify the difference between a struggling goaltender with elite talent and a middling goaltender with some level of risk-reward potential. Risk-reward trades rarely work out for the Sabres, we need to hold onto the best players we develop, keeping in mind that we may know their weaknesses but that we should not lose sight of the larger picture. Miller has had his rough stretches but no sane fan would deny that he has carried this team through countless other struggles. Ennis is a promising young forward who is still within a window of value contracts and attempting to find his ceiling – those types of players are not as common as one might think. Stafford may have more trade value to this team since he is a proven, veteran scoring winger with size and talent (if inconsistent) – and given the ineffectiveness of the core he may be expendable. Gragnani may become expendable due to our organizational depth at the position. But to give all four of them up for Getzlaf and a consolation piece (Hiller) seems like major overkill.

by lassathrax on Jan 5, 2012 12:44 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

mostly agree

Except for Ennis, he just not tough enough for the NHL.

by Geolover on Jan 5, 2012 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Really?
but downgrading to Hiller would make it 1 step forward, 2 steps back

Miller: Career Save% = .914, GGA = 2.60
Hiller: Career Save% = .917, GGA = 2.62

Hiller has started half the games Miller has in their careers, and has half the amount of shutouts he has, so hes on pace.

I see Hiller/Miller as a wash, as far as stats go. But Miller is a big name that Anaheim can sell.

To get a top 10 player in this league, youre going to have to give up talent. I like Ennis, but Id be willing to part with him. We have more than enough wingers. Youre really upset about losing Gragnani? Eesh. And Stafford is replaceable. Hes done nothing except his contract year.

Screw you MSG, and screw you TWC!
I want my Sabres!

by bflo on Jan 5, 2012 1:08 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Bottom line was that I think your trade is overpaying for Getzlaf. I wouldn’t be upset about losing Gragnani, but I think that the trade would work without including him and he could be valuable in another trade or (gasp) playing for the Sabres in the future. Clearly, my opinion on this trade being an overpayment hinges on my opinions of MIller and Hiller, which are not corroborated by statistical analysis. Agree to disagree there, I suppose. And I’d gladly part with Stafford or Ennis for the right trade, maybe even both, but not while also losing Miller.

by lassathrax on Jan 5, 2012 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

The only reason I even included Miller was...

A) Our Cap Space.

B) The rumors of Miller wanting to go west to be closer to his wife, plus it would give Anaheim a marketable player in return from them losing probably their most popular jersey seller. Many Miller jerseys would sell out west.

Screw you MSG, and screw you TWC!
I want my Sabres!

by bflo on Jan 5, 2012 1:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Plus RJ wouldnt have to change his saves call.

HILLLLLLLLLERRRRR MAKES THE SAVE!!!

lol

Screw you MSG, and screw you TWC!
I want my Sabres!

by bflo on Jan 5, 2012 1:40 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Grags is pretty undervalued by Sabres fans.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Jan 5, 2012 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Agree

He isn’t a plus 12 for nothing!

by Geolover on Jan 5, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

He makes a difference

They seem to click a lot better offensively when Gragnani is playing. I wouldn’t sell him yet.

by Philaster on Jan 5, 2012 2:49 PM EST up reply actions  

You guys really wouldn’t throw in a 6-7 dman for getzlaf?!

Screw you MSG, and screw you TWC!
I want my Sabres!

by bflo on Jan 5, 2012 4:51 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

Not for Getzlaf, no. 2007 called, they want their hot player back.

by Philaster on Jan 5, 2012 4:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Hahaha, 2007?!

He had 76 points last year… better than every Sabre. But yeah youre right… we dont need a play making center. Just continue to lose every other game and pray we make the playoffs.

Screw you MSG, and screw you TWC!
I want my Sabres!

by bflo on Jan 5, 2012 9:48 PM EST up reply actions  

He also had less than 20 goals

Who is he going to feed besides Vanek?

by Philaster on Jan 5, 2012 10:28 PM EST up reply actions  

He'd feed the other winger on the line.

Screw you MSG, and screw you TWC!
I want my Sabres!

by bflo on Jan 5, 2012 11:19 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

He'd feed the other winger on the line.

Screw you MSG, and screw you TWC!
I want my Sabres!

by bflo on Jan 5, 2012 11:19 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

Yeah, because they’re going to be as good as Ryan or Perry….
Look, Ryan Getzlaf is -19 this year. There’s no guarantee that he’d continue to be horrible if he were here, but there’s also no guarantee he’d turn it around either. Sports is about risk, but I’d prefer a more conservative bet than Ryan Getzlaf.

by Philaster on Jan 5, 2012 11:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Good centers make wingers look better.

I know Perry and Ryan are good, but with Getz feeding him, he lead the league in goals.

You would want that for Vanek?

Malkin to Neal. Spezza to Michalek.

Neal and Michalek are not in Vaneks league, goal scoring wise, but they are out scoring them with top line centers.

Screw you MSG, and screw you TWC!
I want my Sabres!

by bflo on Jan 5, 2012 11:28 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

A few things in list format because it's easier:

1) It’s not just Grags beign moved. It’s a bunch of guys and Grags.
2) Selling Grags as a 6-7 D-man is exactly what we shouldn’t be doing. He’s 24, in his first full year in the league, and has a lot of potential. If he is dealt, it should only be done if he is being valued as such.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Jan 5, 2012 5:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I probably wouldn’t make that deal either, but I don’t think it’s outrageous either. Stafford is maddeningly inconsistent for his career and Ennis has either been hurt or a shell of what he was last year so far this year. I think the trade could work, but I just don’t think it’s one that works out all that well. I do like though that it’s not trading Roy b/c this team has center depth issues. You don’t trade your top center for someone else’s top center and help you depth.

Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz

by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 5, 2012 5:05 PM EST up reply actions  

The same applies to Ennis.

He’s extremely young (22!) and has a boat-load of potential. You (royal you) wouldn’t be valuing him based on what he’s done things year (or even last). You’d be valuing him based upon his future output.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Jan 5, 2012 5:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah but you are what you are on the team youre on.

Myers, Ehrhoff, Regehr, Leopold, Sekera

Grags will never be above them.

Plus McNabb, Weber, Pysyk, Finley, Brennan

We have A LOT of D-Men… Grags is certainly replaceable.

Screw you MSG, and screw you TWC!
I want my Sabres!

by bflo on Jan 5, 2012 9:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Disagree – Grags might be better than Sekera, possibly Leopold. It’s way way way too hasty to say he’ll never be above them.

by Philaster on Jan 5, 2012 10:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Just because he may be replaceable

doesn’t mean he should be sold short.

He may be a 6-7 D-man with us, but in Anaheim and elsewhere he’d be higher than that – not to mention in the future.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Jan 5, 2012 11:13 PM EST up reply actions  

So you'd rather have a

Solid 6-7th dman than a #1, dominate center?

Of course id love 20 all stars, buy thats not possible. I know Grags is our guy, but if he were a Coyote, you wouldnt blink twice if he was thrown into a trade for Getzlaf.

Screw you MSG, and screw you TWC!
I want my Sabres!

by bflo on Jan 5, 2012 11:22 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

Gragnani has the potential to be a 3-4 defenseman at least. I’d be okay with throwing him into a trade for someone else, potentially, but not Getzlaf. I’m just not that crazy about him because I don’t think he’ll be worth the potential cost.

by Philaster on Jan 5, 2012 11:26 PM EST up reply actions  

What other team has a GM

That has openly said their #1 center is on the open market?

Screw you MSG, and screw you TWC!
I want my Sabres!

by bflo on Jan 5, 2012 11:30 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

There’s a reason he’s on the open market. Boudreau benched him because he’s not clicking with anyone anymore and he’s not playing well. In fact, he’s playing horribly.

by Philaster on Jan 5, 2012 11:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Id argue he isnt playing "horribly"

and you ever think maybe a change of scenery is what he needs? Hes won a Cup out west, played out there his whole career, and now is in last place. Moving east to a different team with different players could be what he needs.

He is still a top 10 Center in this league.

Screw you MSG, and screw you TWC!
I want my Sabres!

by bflo on Jan 6, 2012 9:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Disagree

On top 10 center, though maybe top 15. If you go over to the Anaheim site, you’ll find way more complaints about his game the past two years than compliments.
So -19 isn’t horrible? Being on pace for half the points you got last year isn’t horrible? He could need a change of scenery. He could also transfer his suck to Buffalo and then where would we be?
If we were to go after someone, I’d rather target an Eric Staal or Rick Nash. They also need a change of scenery and would be a safer bet.

by Philaster on Jan 6, 2012 9:50 AM EST up reply actions  

On top 10 center, though maybe top 15.

My bad, top 15 center, well that is certainly a need for us. We dont have a top 25 center.

He could also transfer his suck to Buffalo and then where would we be?

Then we’d still be out of the playoffs like we are right now.

I’d rather target an Eric Staal

This point you make is laughable, you criticize me for wanting Getzlaf, and you bring up his -19, Staal is a -23, dead last in the NHL!

And Im not even saying I wouldnt want Staal, because of what I said earlier, a change of pace. But two things: 1) Carolina is the only team in the NHL we’ve never traded with. 2) Id much rather have a package deal to a team out west instead of our own conference.

As for Nash, Id love him too. But again, hes a winger, we need help up the middle.

Screw you MSG, and screw you TWC!
I want my Sabres!

by bflo on Jan 6, 2012 9:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Staal is a risk as well but I believe a smaller one, and here’s why his plus minus doesn’t scare me as much: Carolina is a younger much less talented team than the ducks. Staal has also had better statistical years than Getzlaf has had including breaking the 100 point mark.

by Philaster on Jan 6, 2012 9:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Comparison:

Age: Getzlaf 26 / Staal 27

Career PPG: Getzlaf .96 / Staal .88

Career +/-: Getzlaf +59 / Staal -36
(Getzlaf has one season in the minus, Staal has 6)

Best Season: Getzlaf 91 / Staal 100

Both have two seasons over 82 points.

Total hits last 3 years: Getzlaf 469 / Staal 184

Salary: Getzlaf $5,750,00 / Staal $7,750,000

Summary: Getzlaf is younger, cheaper, better career PPG, triple the amount of hits and also has played in 133 less games and has 14 more career assits.

Screw you MSG, and screw you TWC!
I want my Sabres!

by bflo on Jan 6, 2012 10:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Apples and Oranges

They’re two different types of players on two very different teams, clearly. Carolina has been a lot worse and a lot less physical than Anaheim has been, and the Western Conference is much different than the Eastern Conference. I’m less in love with Staal than I am not at all in love with Getzlaf.
Look at Raffi Torres. Very physical player (some would say too physical), with a lot of hits. Went nowhere with the Sabres. Dainius Zubrus. Ditto. Just because a player hits more, doesn’t mean he’s the solution for the Sabres. Getzlaf is also barely younger, so that’s more of a wash. Not saying that Staal would work either, but I’m less convinced of Getzlaf.

by Philaster on Jan 6, 2012 10:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Wow I thought Geztzlaf was like 29 and had a $8M+ cap-hit.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Jan 6, 2012 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

But that's just it

you using him as a throw-in.

I’m not against moving Grags in principle. I just think if he is moved, it better be in a deal where he is being valued highly.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Jan 5, 2012 11:29 PM EST up reply actions  

We have to sweeten the pot

Because if we dont. Getzlaf will be feeding Kessel for the next 5+ years.

Screw you MSG, and screw you TWC!
I want my Sabres!

by bflo on Jan 5, 2012 11:31 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

Let the Leafs complain about Getzlaf’s inconsistent play and the fact that they overpaid for yet another player that didn’t work out.

by Philaster on Jan 5, 2012 11:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Who do they have on their team

right now that theyve overpaid for and that isnt producing?

As much as I hate to say it, these arent the Leafs of the last 8 years, this Leafs team is better than us, right now.

Screw you MSG, and screw you TWC!
I want my Sabres!

by bflo on Jan 6, 2012 9:46 AM EST up reply actions  

They won't be at the end of the year

Trust me on this one.
I’d also argue that MacArthur is overpaid for one. Kessel has played very well this year, but it can be argued that what they gave up to get him has not been worth it. I think Boston won that trade big time. Phaneuf is overpaid in my opinion. Mike Komisarek is overpaid. Francois Beauchemin was grossly overpaid until they shipped him back to the Ducks. How’s Jeff Finger working out for them? He’s great at 3.5 million a year. FOR THE MARLIES. Is that enough players for you?

by Philaster on Jan 6, 2012 9:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Oh yeah, Phaneuf has been a real disappointment this year… Captain, Starting in the ASG, 27 points.

MacArthur is playing better than Boyes, and has more goals than Roy and Stafford.

We have Morrisson down in Roch playing for a nice size contract.

Komisarek might be a disappointment, but hes also been out 7 weeks with a broken arm.

The only way we dont end up below Toronto is if we make a move, the team we have right now, will be looking up at the Leafs in the standings.

Screw you MSG, and screw you TWC!
I want my Sabres!

by bflo on Jan 6, 2012 10:26 AM EST up reply actions  

Phaneuf is starting in the ASG because Leaf fans openly rig the fan voting. He’s good, but not 6.5 million a year good.
As for MacArthur, he’s been playing well too. I might prefer him to Stafford and Roy with the way they’ve been playing, but again, 3.250 million is a little high for him.
Morrisson is down in Rochester, but it’s no comparison with Finger. Morrisson is earning three times less and his deal was not near as long term as Finger’s was.
Toronto was ahead of the Sabres at this point last year too, IIRC. They’re only 5 points ahead now, and that’s with the really hot start they had. It’s hardly an insurmountable lead with this many games to go.

by Philaster on Jan 6, 2012 10:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Untill this year

Kessel for one.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Jan 6, 2012 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Stale

That says it all! They are as stale as yesterdays headlines. The proof is in the callups. As the injuries began to pile up, players were called up from Rochester. With the possible exception of McNabb whose performance seems to get better each game, the callups initially performed very well. They scored goals, bolstered the defense provided some excitement. Then, after five to 10 games in the big time, they melted into the Ruff system. A system that tolerates sloppy, undisciplied play and provides and endless stream of excuses to justify lack of enthusiam, grit and hustle. Under the Ruff system, a player needs to only exert himself perhaps every third or fouth shift. The Ruff system is boring and predictable and the rest league has caught on to it. Even poor teams like the Islanders, Carolina, Edmonton and Columbus have very good games against the overpromoted, underachieving Sabres.

Yes, stale describes the team to a T!

by Geolover on Jan 5, 2012 12:46 PM EST reply actions  

Or

Young players tend to be inconsistent, and call-ups cannot maintain their initial output bursts under any coach or any “system” of play. Their success may also be inhibited by other teams’ ability to learn more about young players’ tendencies and weaknesses to be exploited as they remain in the NHL longer.

by lassathrax on Jan 5, 2012 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Inconsistancy is to be expected, laziness is not acceptable and that is the issue. Even Adam, who started out like a house a fire has lost a lot of his enthusiam and hustle. None of the others have been playing in the NHL long enough for players on other teams pick up on their “tendencies or weaknesses”.

Sorry, there is a malaise on this team, and it was placed their by the coaching staff and management. There are no easy or quick solutions. We fans just have to persevere through this non-productive period and hope that the necessary changes will be made during the off season to make the Sabres at least competative next season.

by Geolover on Jan 5, 2012 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Please explain to us all any objective facts supporting your assertions that the coaches and management placed a malaise on this team, or that the players are lazy… I mean seriously, you can’t actually know the reasons behind any given result, and it is much more sensible to attribute at least a large portion of the “malaise” and lack of production to the injuries.

by lassathrax on Jan 5, 2012 1:09 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Stafford not skating back in OT vs Ottawa a few weeks ago resulted directly to a loss.

Roy has dogged it on his back check more than once this year. And Adam is another that seems to coast a lot coming back into the zone. Its not all the time, but it happens more than it should, and a lot of times it ends in chances against or goals.

Screw you MSG, and screw you TWC!
I want my Sabres!

by bflo on Jan 5, 2012 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

OK, let me clarify. There will be instances with almost any player on any team who will have lazy moments. What facts support that this is the fault of coaching and management?

by lassathrax on Jan 5, 2012 1:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I dont think there is a physical thing that you can point out.

Other than the players are starting to tune Lindy out. And its no fault of his own. But after being under the same coach for their entire NHL careers (Stafford, Roy, Gaustad) … its just natural to give the “here we go again” or sarcastic “ok” every once a while, because they feel “safe.”

Screw you MSG, and screw you TWC!
I want my Sabres!

by bflo on Jan 5, 2012 1:15 PM EST up reply actions  

OK, I will concede that as being true. However, who could you replace Ruff with that would be an improvement for the team? I don’t know the answers, but no one else seems to either, which leads me to believe that in the big picture, Ruff is best for this team. Even if some of the veteran home-grown players tune him out once in a while, they still want to win games and, for the most part, adhere to the team-oriented style of play. Fans around here tend to overvalue the occasional slip-up and the very-recent history, while undervaluing long-term considerations and mostly-positive players.

Again, though, Geo has attributed all of the struggles of the team to the coaches and management, when in reality they are obviously not entirely responsible, and may even be faultless in the portion of responsibility they share.

by lassathrax on Jan 5, 2012 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Haha,
OK, I will concede that as being true. However, who could you replace Ruff with that would be an improvement for the team? I don’t know the answers, but no one else seems to either,

Thats the question. I dont think anyone knows the right answer. There might not even be a

right
answer. Its like the Chicken and the Egg question.

Screw you MSG, and screw you TWC!
I want my Sabres!

by bflo on Jan 5, 2012 1:31 PM EST up reply actions  

italic fail.

but you get my drift.

Screw you MSG, and screw you TWC!
I want my Sabres!

by bflo on Jan 5, 2012 1:32 PM EST up reply actions  

.
dont think there is a physical thing that you can point out. Other than the players are starting to tune Lindy out.

But you can’t actually point to that.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Jan 5, 2012 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Open your eyes and see for yourself.

by Geolover on Jan 5, 2012 2:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Im saying its nota physical thing that you can see or touch...

But it certainly seems as if its there. Of course I dont know 100% and Im speculating… but you cant tell me this team gives it its all every night. We laughed at the Caps for laying down and tuning Budreua out, and look what happened, he got fired.

Screw you MSG, and screw you TWC!
I want my Sabres!

by bflo on Jan 5, 2012 9:50 PM EST up reply actions  

And they still kind of suck.

by Philaster on Jan 5, 2012 10:30 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

That kinda suck team

Just beat us and is ahead of us in the East.

Screw you MSG, and screw you TWC!
I want my Sabres!

by bflo on Jan 5, 2012 11:32 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

Here’s the problem I have with your premise. Someone is critical of the team and you say “Where are the facts”, but if someone blindly supports the team do you say the same?

Objective facts: This team has been pretty bad. They haven’t been great in about 4 years…..so….

I get the point. Roy has been productive in his career, etc….but, Let’s not just ignore the tear the team went on when he was out. Is it just coincidence, possible, but if you want facts or stats about players or the team (and you commented on Roy and Pommers above) the winning percentage in the last 2 years with Roy in and out of the lineup is pretty damning as well. Maybe laziness is a bad word to use, but they don’t appear fully engaged or have their head in the game oftentimes.

Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz

by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 5, 2012 3:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Unfair

The Sabres have not been pretty bad for the past four years. You’re a bills fan, right? Count your freaking blessings. The Leafs have been pretty bad since 2003. The Thrashers were bad forever.

by Philaster on Jan 5, 2012 3:15 PM EST up reply actions  

But this does bring into play an ambiguous definition.

We would have to have a set value for what qualifies a team as “pretty bad” is. Is it below a .500 record, is it missing the playoffs, is it even potentially a team who makes first round exits in the playoffs in a league where more teams make them than not?

What makes a team go from bad to pretty bad, what’s below pretty bad?

It is sports though, if we value things like chemistry and consistency and mental toughness then we do have to place some value on the “gut feeling” of everyone, from the casual fan, to the die hard to the coach to the owner.

by VFN FTW on Jan 5, 2012 3:25 PM EST up reply actions  

OK….but what’s my standard? Am I OK with them just making the playoffs? With the Bills, you bet I would be. With the Sabres, nope….the standard is higher since the lockout evened the playing field a little and now with an owner who talks big and appears ready to back it up.

I agree they haven’t been pretty bad for the past four years and you will see nowhere where I make that point. But, this team seems to have taken a step back in the last four years in my opinion. Now, maybe next year will be a step forward (I think it will be), but I think there is a valid argument to be made that it might not be. It’s OK if you disagree with that, but not OK if you disagree b/c you think I’m an idiot (see my point below) b/c I don’t think the same as you. That was more my point.

Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz

by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 5, 2012 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

To clarify, when I said pretty bad, I meant this year/lately. I said they haven’t been great in at least 4 years.

Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz

by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 5, 2012 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

That is fair. All I was saying is that it would be unfair to say they were pretty bad for the past 4 years. I agree that for this year to be a success, they can’t bow out in the first round. Close as they’ve come, they haven’t been able to do that since 2007, and with the way the playoffs are changing, it could only get harder next year.

by Philaster on Jan 5, 2012 3:57 PM EST up reply actions  

.
Am I OK with them just making the playoffs? […] With the Sabres, nope

This sounds scarily close to a Yankees fan’s view/expectation. It can be disappointing, sure, but I don’t ever want to get to the point where if just making the playoffs is a “failure”.

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by Ogre39666 on Jan 5, 2012 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Again….never said failure either. Also, nowhere did I say I expect a championship every year (as Yankees fans do). How about this. I want to expect them to win a playoff series instead of just hoping I’m wrong that they don’t have the right stuff to win one (as I’ve felt for a while now).

Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz

by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 5, 2012 4:43 PM EST up reply actions  

well

It is a heck of a lot easier to make the playoffs in the NHL than it is in the NFL. Winning a title is a different story.

GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!

by hoosier3 on Jan 5, 2012 5:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I’m not even talking a title….I just mean winning a series and I’ll be doing cartwheels. Wait…first I will learn to do cartwheels and then I will do them.

Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz

by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 5, 2012 6:22 PM EST up reply actions  

This team hasnt won a playoff series in 5 seasons.

Thats not good.

Screw you MSG, and screw you TWC!
I want my Sabres!

by bflo on Jan 5, 2012 9:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think that's quite fair.

I know I for one scoffed (if not publicly, at least to myself) at the people who thought the Cup was in the bag before the team even played one game.

Also, we don’t see people posting ridiculously optimistic comments every chance they get like a lot of the negative commenters do.

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by Ogre39666 on Jan 5, 2012 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Also, we don’t see people posting ridiculously optimistic comments every chance they get like a lot of the negative commenters do.

I would disagree. The comments around here are rife with people (often the same ones) ready to quote Roy’s and Pominville’s stats and to yell down or make sarcastic comments any time anything negative is said about certain players. But, at this point I’ve made my point and am beating a dead horse, so I’ll let it go.

Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz

by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 5, 2012 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

If they are quoting stats

how are they being wildly optimistic?

That’s the main difference between the two “camps” if you will. One points to things like stats and context while the other points to gut feelings and emotions. On is a rational basis for conclusions, the other, not so much.

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by Ogre39666 on Jan 5, 2012 4:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Sometimes you get a different sense watching the game than you do looking at the stat sheet, no? OK….now I’m done….unless I think of something else witty. By the way, I’m not saying that I disagree or agree, but that there is an argument to be made that changes have to be made to either the roster, coaching staff, front office or all of the above.

Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz

by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 5, 2012 4:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Rec'd.

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by Ogre39666 on Jan 5, 2012 5:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Ted Black was on GR this morning

And when asked about the crowd being so quiet, his reason was that Buffalo is a “mature hockey market” where fans like to be quiet and focus on the game. He likened it to a rock concert where fans just want to sit and listen. I laughed out loud in my car when I heard that. Well, Ted, don’t you think the maddening brand of hockey they’re watching may have something to do with it?

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by riverssyr on Jan 5, 2012 1:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I think he is right to some extent. Even in 2006-2007 when the team was on fire the crowds were not very loud. Fans in other markets are usually screaming to maintain interest in the games, screaming for action. Sabres fans, to some extent, are more in tune to the subtleties of the game and like to focus on developing plays and defensive strategies. So when the team is performing poorly, you can only expect that the fans will become quieter (or worse, shout negative things). It is a combination.

by lassathrax on Jan 5, 2012 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

No way dude.
Even in 2006-2007 when the team was on fire the crowds were not very loud.

That place was like a Frat Party.

Screw you MSG, and screw you TWC!
I want my Sabres!

by bflo on Jan 5, 2012 1:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe compared to now, but not compared to other teams playing at that level. (Playoffs don’t count here, obviously, because in the 2007 playoffs – or any playoffs – the place is literally like a frat party)

by lassathrax on Jan 5, 2012 1:15 PM EST up reply actions  

I mean youre right,

winning makes the place go crazy, so all these losses at home are discouraging fans. But I dont think Black is right in saying that its because were the “educated fan.” Of course we all, but that doesnt mean we dont like to cheer.

Screw you MSG, and screw you TWC!
I want my Sabres!

by bflo on Jan 5, 2012 1:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Black

I can’t believe Black thinks the Sabres fans are stupid enough to believe the Pablam he feeding us!

by Geolover on Jan 5, 2012 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Frat House! lol

i had many o drunk nights at the arena in 06-07! I was 10-1-1 i think that year.

Buffalo/ Rochester 2011! Thanks TP!

by thenewhockeytown on Jan 5, 2012 3:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah agree. The Caps gameday presentation is worse/lamer than the Sabres, yet the crowd responds better. I think part of it is demographics. You have a lot of young people/families who are looking for a night out in Buffalo and whose primary focus isn’t necessarily the game. You also have a lot of people in their 40-50s who just aren’t going to get as excited. It seems like everyone at a Caps game is in their 20-30s. These are broad generalizations with many exceptions, but it’s just something I’ve noticed. Buffalo just has older people than a lot of places, except maybe Florida. And look at how lively those arenas are.

by Philaster on Jan 5, 2012 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

During the Jagr days, the MCI center was absolutely cavernous and empty. They’re a few bad seasons from it being that way again. But you don’t have to have informed fans to have a good atmosphere. In fact, it usually works the other way.
A better model would be a place like Ottawa, I would think, or Minnesota. Places where people know hockey that aren’t massive metro areas in the likes of Boston, Philly, or NY.

by Philaster on Jan 5, 2012 4:47 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

That's pretty much what I meant.

New fans will cheer at just about anything because it’s all new and exciting.

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by Ogre39666 on Jan 5, 2012 4:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I couldn’t hear the crowd noise when Leopold scored against the Oilers, which was an issue… but we finally had someone playing drums so i felt better about the crowd participation than usual.

Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Free to roam the blueline.
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by Ubiquitous on Jan 5, 2012 4:55 PM EST up reply actions  

thanks for bringing that up

I got ripped for talking about Black with some Sabres fans a few weeks ago. Anyone who buys into that kind of garbage is a sheep. Hockey fans like hockey because of the action. Baseball is a thinking mans game, not hockey. Sure, I would like to think Sabres fans are educated but they certainly are zombies. I am glad you mentioned that interview because I didnt hear it and its confirming my suspicions that he is nothing more than a talking head,

by thekillercarlson on Jan 6, 2012 2:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Sabres fans ARE NOT zombies*

by thekillercarlson on Jan 6, 2012 2:25 AM EST up reply actions  

I applaud the job Ted Black has done so far and think we are generally lucky to have him.

I think he was just guilty of obvious spin in this particular instance.

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by Ogre39666 on Jan 6, 2012 3:18 AM EST up reply actions  

I don’t think Black could have won with any answer to the question/statement.

TB: Our fans are awesome and they are so intense watching the game they don’t make noise –
Media/Fans: Nice Spin Mr. Black, you’re wrong were not ZOMBIES! MEEERRR BRAINS!

TB: Yes, it’s a library and people need to be more vocal.
Media/Fans: WELL MAYBE YOU SHOULD GIVE THEM SOMETHING TO CHEER ABOUT

TB: I think we need to give the fans more to cheer about.
Media/Fans: You and the players have been saying that all season.

Ted Black is in a position that he can’t throw his players under the bus and he certainly doesn’t want to throw the fans under the same bus. Black has shown his frustration this season, I posted a link from WGRZ TV where the tone of the answers he was giving was completely different from what were used to from him. He’s been a really good ambassador to the people from the Sabres organization, and I much rather have Mr. Black at the point that Larry Quinn.

IMO, The Fans and the Sabres need to be better. It’s not right to not support your team just because they’re playing bad. Just like the players should give their best effort each and every night.

"If we needed any more motivation to win a Cup sooner than later, we've got one now," Black said. "I really want to listen to the game that RJ calls when he finally gets to shout out, 'Buffalo wins the Stanley Cup.'"
"Do it or Die Trying."

by FloridaBuffalo on Jan 6, 2012 8:34 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I have no problem with Ted Black overall

I actually like him and think he’s a refreshing voice. Just pointing out how crazy/funny that comment was.

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by riverssyr on Jan 6, 2012 8:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Oh, I support the team and haven’t been able to make it to a game this season (distance) but supporting and cheering are different. That having been said, I’ve heard it’s like a morgue in there, but that’s been an issue to varying degrees since they moved the the arena, has it not?

Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz

by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 6, 2012 8:47 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree completely. You were on top of the action in the Aud and it seemed a lot smaller (but also a lot less corporate, and I understand the need for revenue). The whole place smelled of Beer, peanuts and popcorn. When the Bruins or Canadiens came to town, it was not uncommon for fights to break out in the stands, something I can’t even imagine now. It was a special place.
But we’re stuck with the FNC. I don’t really know if there’s much we can do about the atmosphere. I honestly don’t think it’s that bad, but I kind of like being quiet and focusing on the game when I’m there as well.

by Philaster on Jan 6, 2012 9:35 AM EST up reply actions  

When I was a kid, I always feared I would trip on the stairs in the orange section and plummet all the way to my untimely demise onto the ice. The angle of those seats was something.

Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz

by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 6, 2012 12:22 PM EST up reply actions  

The 300s were built 30 years after the Aud was opened

to ensure that we could have a larger audience to watch NHL games. It is really interesting to me that they jacked the roof up on the Aud and added a whole 300 level into the arena. In doing so, they had to make it super steep.

On a side note, I took my girlfriend to a game at FNC last year and she was shocked at how steep the 300s were. I thought that was kind of funny, since those 300 level seats are not nearly as daunting to climb as the Aud’s were.

"We’re gonna win the Stanley Cup. Then, you know what, we’re gonna win it again,"
-Terry Pegula

by bgred105 on Jan 6, 2012 1:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I took my girlfriend to the St. Pete Times Forum in Tampa and since I cheaped out we sat in the 300s behind the net. They were bad seats, you could see the entire ice with no obstruction. My girlfriend didn’t want to move once we sat down. She was really afraid of falling down the steps. I only said one thing about it the entire game

“You wouldn’t have made it in the Aud.”

"If we needed any more motivation to win a Cup sooner than later, we've got one now," Black said. "I really want to listen to the game that RJ calls when he finally gets to shout out, 'Buffalo wins the Stanley Cup.'"
"Do it or Die Trying."

by FloridaBuffalo on Jan 6, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions  

This is really it.

Even when the team is going well, the crowd just isn’t the same. It’s been this way for years now.

by lgbfromoregon on Jan 6, 2012 10:07 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree about the “waiting for big things” part. I was just more commenting that the ambiance of the Aud (if you want to call it that) led to a very different fan experience.

Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz

by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 6, 2012 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, it's a lose/lose situation.

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by Ogre39666 on Jan 6, 2012 4:08 PM EST up reply actions  

mobile rec

"Starting today, the Buffalo Sabres' reason for existence will be to win a Stanley Cup" - Terry Pegula

by willgarr15 on Jan 5, 2012 1:31 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

It’s because they fired their coach right?

by VFN FTW on Jan 5, 2012 1:55 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

No, its because they have dedicated talent!

by Geolover on Jan 5, 2012 2:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry, I just had to get the Winnie point in. I saw the ball on the tee, so I hit it…

by VFN FTW on Jan 5, 2012 3:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Ev... Evg...Evgensomething Ma...Making? Malkin?

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by Ogre39666 on Jan 5, 2012 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly.

If you have two elite centers, you can afford to lose one of them. And Staal, while not as good as Eric, is a solid 2nd line center (that normally plays the 3rd line because he’s buried behind Crosby/Malkin).

"You never have to wait long, or look far, to be reminded of how thin the line is between being a hero or a goat."
- Mickey Mantle

by maestro110584 on Jan 5, 2012 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Pittsburgh: 15 recalls
Buffalo: 18 recalls (20% more)

Pittsburgh: 2 million LTIR money.
Buffalo: 3 million LTIR money. (33% more)

Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Free to roam the blueline.
"Ville Leino may stink but he’s still way better than Matt Ellis."

by Ubiquitous on Jan 5, 2012 5:02 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Amen.

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by Ogre39666 on Jan 5, 2012 2:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I apologize for the ignorant bit, I was kind of lumping you in with some other more ignorant fans who happen to agree with most of the opinions you have expressed in this post. I respect that it is a matter of opinion and you’re certainly entitled to it, as long as you realize that’s all it is. I sure do. Sorry again for the ignorant bit, was totally out of line.

by lassathrax on Jan 5, 2012 5:43 PM EST up reply actions  

No problem my friend

Appreciate the clarification. Nothing wrong with a friendly debate.

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by riverssyr on Jan 5, 2012 6:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, good going. You got a thread with over 100 replies going.

by Philaster on Jan 5, 2012 6:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Haha

Well that wasn’t the ultimate goal but it goes to show that we’re quite a spirited fan base…one way or another.

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by riverssyr on Jan 5, 2012 6:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Spirited is a good way to put it.

A trainwreck season like this certainly brings out some strong opinions for how best to proceed.

by lassathrax on Jan 6, 2012 2:12 AM EST up reply actions  

But to suggest that major changes for the sake of major changes are a good way to generate optimism is short-sighted and ignorant.

You had some good points, but why are so many on this site quick to yell down those who are pessimistic about the team as if they are idiots? I disagree so I’m ignorant? There is a school of thought that this “core” that Regier and Ruff have spoken of needs to be at least pared down. So, that would be Vanek, Stafford, Roy, Pominville. To move 2 of those players would be a MAJOR change. If they got something good back (either for this year or next) couldn’t that be good for the team? Isn’t that possible? Isn’t there something to be said about the leadership of Roy or Stafford or Pominville (I know, Pominville has brought it on ice this year, but I’m not talking the “leading by example” leadership) that this team seems to be skating through sand some nights and making mental errors.
A lot of it is injuries and I believe this team will get in to the playoffs somewhere as a 6-8 seed. But, I have zero confidence of this roster holding up and gutting out a 7 game series right now. I hope I’m wrong, but does that make me ignorant or short sighted? I think the core (not Vanek in this example) needs to change for this team to be in contention for a title. Now, that doesn’t mean that they need to be gone…I just don’t think this team will contend as long as the team looks to the likes of Stafford and Roy to lift them in adversity.

Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz

by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 5, 2012 3:21 PM EST up reply actions  

It's mainly becasue anyone and everyone who suggests a GM and/or coaching change never ever make realistic suggestions of who to replace them with.

I know you talked mostly about the core of the team and not the FO, so it doesn’t really apply to what you wrote, but that’s the reason.

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by Ogre39666 on Jan 5, 2012 4:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, as far as an in season change, the success rate on those is mixed, but I think totally discounting it for a team that on paper should be better I think doesn’t make a lot of sense either. I don’t think I would advocate a change yet, but I’m certainly ready to listen to and participate in that discussion. My earlier comments have been more focused on the fact that when anyone starts to want to have that discussion, they are treated like they don’t know what they are talking about. I think there are valid arguments to be made for and against it. I for one am glad to see something on the front page suggesting that maybe we should be discussing this and laying out the reasons why.

Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz

by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 5, 2012 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

.
I think there are valid arguments to be made

And those are very sparse from the “fire _” crowd.

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by Ogre39666 on Jan 5, 2012 4:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Why, because you disagree? Just b/c my viewpoint is different and I don’t do a statistical analysis that I post here doesn’t mean an argument doesn’t have merit. There are people who like to “bait” others around here by making ridiculous statements or overgeneralizations, etc. and I think those are maybe the people you are referring to (not to name names or anything). If that’s the case, I understand. But, I think people who are pessimistic about this team have valid arguments to make. That’s all I’m saying.

Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz

by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 5, 2012 5:00 PM EST up reply actions  

I am using the "real", technical definition of "valid".

Meaning “an argument so constructed that if the premises are jointly asserted, the conclusion cannot be denied without contradiction.” Basically the premise(s) have to be grounded in things that are objective; things you can actually point to and (most) everyone can agree on. A number happens to be a great example (it’s not the only one though) while a feeling tends not to be. Maybe that’s where some of our disagreement comes from.

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by Ogre39666 on Jan 5, 2012 5:09 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Actually, a lot of the disagreement is that there are a group of people here who tend to feel the need to talk down to those who disagree with them and do things like type out definitions to explain things to those who are apparently not as smart and are ignorant.

Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz

by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 5, 2012 5:22 PM EST up reply actions  

To clarify

I’m not saying you are calling me dumb or ignorant, but that was the original point I was making at this part of the thread. And then you feel the need to quote out of a dictionary to me. Ironic I would say. I realized a minute ago this last comment probably comes across in a way I wasn’t totally going for. Sorry.

On a positive note…I’ll have nothing but radio, game threads, and stats to use as analysis for a while b/c MSG sucks. So, let’s see how it changes my view of certain players

Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz

by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 5, 2012 5:30 PM EST up reply actions  

This pretty much sums up my thoughts

It’s not like I’m actively rooting for the team to fail so Lindy Ruff is fired. I’ve even communicated through my posts that I’ve slowly devolved to this state where I’m starting to think the Ruff era is coming to an end. Something obviously isn’t working, and it’s not just this year with injuries…it’s been a few years now. And no, getting rid of Ruff/Regier wouldn’t come anywhere close to solving the problems the team has, but it’s a lot easier to replace the guys at the top than gut the roster. Look at how the Pegula purchase sparked the team last year. Don’t you think it’s reasonable to think a new voice in the locker room could do the same thing?

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by riverssyr on Jan 5, 2012 5:33 PM EST up reply actions  

.
Move out players who only perform in contract years (Stafford)

Conclusions with sample sizes of 1 wtf.

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by Ogre39666 on Jan 5, 2012 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

This goes back to my old proof of skewing statistics based off the constraints of the data.

No one pees on the floor at my office.

Sample size is one (me) and I didn’t piss on the floor, so therefore no one pisses on the floor.

I don’t see any leaky plumbing or natural springs feeding up through the tiles, so wtf is is on the floor?

by VFN FTW on Jan 5, 2012 3:12 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Actually, the sample size is larger is you look back a few years with Hecht, Pommers (who is finally starting to play up to his contract, although I would hardly call him a bargin over the life of that contract).

Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz

by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 5, 2012 3:22 PM EST up reply actions  

The poster was only talking about Stafford.

And even if the sample size was three, that would still be too small.

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by Ogre39666 on Jan 5, 2012 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh please,

its happens all the time, in all sports, thats why the term “contract year player” is around.

Screw you MSG, and screw you TWC!
I want my Sabres!

by bflo on Jan 5, 2012 9:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually it doesn't.

I can tell you it’s a myth in baseball. It’s around because of confirmation bias and ESPN.

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by Ogre39666 on Jan 5, 2012 11:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Sources:

Baseball: Link. Link.
Football: Link

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by Ogre39666 on Jan 5, 2012 11:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Sure maybe the average player may not have better years.

But dont act like the Contract Year thing hasnt happened.

Screw you MSG, and screw you TWC!
I want my Sabres!

by bflo on Jan 6, 2012 9:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Seriously?

You’re going to ignore all that evidence? It’s a myth.

And even if a player does have a career year in a year where he just so happens to be at the end of his contract, why does that have to be the thing that caused the better play? There are a myriad of other possibilities. Age, opportunity, luck, etc.

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by Ogre39666 on Jan 6, 2012 4:15 PM EST up reply actions  

I know that on average a player it doesnt effect them

you proved that.

But to get an average, you have highs and low… meaning people have outdone themselves and also shit the bed in Contract Years.

It does happen, just averages out to show its not the normal.

Screw you MSG, and screw you TWC!
I want my Sabres!

by bflo on Jan 6, 2012 4:58 PM EST up reply actions  

My point on Briere/Drury

Was probably not as explained as clear as I would have liked. I wasn’t really arguing that letting them gow as the wrong move, just arguing that it led to the panic of locking up the other inferior players in “the core”. Again, all a matter of opinion.

If the point of the article was to stir up a nice, spirited discussion, looks like it worked at least.

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by riverssyr on Jan 5, 2012 2:40 PM EST up reply actions  

What planet are you living on?

Wakeup! Smell the coffee! Open your eyes, but more importantly, open your mind to reason.

by Geolover on Jan 5, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

That made me smile.

"We’re gonna win the Stanley Cup. Then, you know what, we’re gonna win it again,"
-Terry Pegula

by bgred105 on Jan 5, 2012 5:12 PM EST up reply actions  

As i like evidence: Here’s some supporting anecdotal evidence of Ruff outcoaching people.
I’ve seen a number of these articles on SBN

Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Free to roam the blueline.
"Ville Leino may stink but he’s still way better than Matt Ellis."

by Ubiquitous on Jan 5, 2012 7:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Anaheim

Even though I’m probably in the minority, I’m not sure trading for anyone from the RPG line is a good idea. They’ve played horribly all year, but beyond that, they’ve been really inconsistent aside from their cup run. If you want hard working leader type players – look elsewhere. I’m not sure they’d be worth the cost.
I’d rather have someone like Rick Nash, who has always produced even on the worst of teams and has some leadership qualities.

by Philaster on Jan 5, 2012 3:04 PM EST reply actions  

I tend to agree with you.

We need a center, that’s for sure, but giving up Roy for one still leaves you with a void and bringing in Getzlaf will probably cost way too much. Really the only way for this team to bring in a center without mortgaging the future is if it comes from within (not happening) or if it happens in FA.

by lgbfromoregon on Jan 5, 2012 3:55 PM EST up reply actions  

We have a first line center and his name is Jason Pominville. (he’s actually #3 on the team in faceoffs taken!)

I don’t get it either but what do i know?

Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Free to roam the blueline.
"Ville Leino may stink but he’s still way better than Matt Ellis."

by Ubiquitous on Jan 5, 2012 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

You get yourself into serious trouble making a move just to make a move. I’ve been as critical of the “core” as anyone, and I think the team could use a change. I just think they should be smart in how they change the team, and I think trading one unmotivated streaky player for another is not the way to go if you want to give the team a better identity. Not naming names.

by Philaster on Jan 5, 2012 4:50 PM EST up reply actions  

My conclusion: Deal with it and Zach Kassian will save us.

Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Free to roam the blueline.
"Ville Leino may stink but he’s still way better than Matt Ellis."

by Ubiquitous on Jan 5, 2012 4:54 PM EST up reply actions  

My two cents

Darcy doesn’t really have a whole lot he can do this year (and it might lead to his demise). His trades need to either dump salary or be almost dollar for dollar this year. They have a lot of promising prospects, but can’t use them to acquire veterans without giving up veterans. Players like Roy and Stafford aren’t going to be exactly bringing back anything to help out this year, so it makes sense to just hang on to players in a slump and hope they snap out of it (even if it is maddening to watch). Next offseason and season, I think the Sabres will be poised for some big moves. They have some salary coming off the books and have a few entering the final year. I think they could move some vets/prospects to make a run for next year and the year after that. I have no illusions about my expectations for the team this season. My belief is they will make the playoffs this year but that’s about it. Next season, I think they might decide to go all-in to go for a cup one of the next two years. They’ve shown they have some organizational depth they can use in a variety of ways (which I think is something Regier has going for him). But, if I had to guess, if this team doesn’t improve, Darcy will be let go this offseason.

Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz

by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 5, 2012 4:55 PM EST reply actions  

Dream On

The Sabres run to the playoffs was ended in there first game against the Bruins. All of the teams in the NHL have lost respect for them and it shows in the standings.

No team wants to lose to the “soft” Sabres; it is an embarassment. Weak teams like the Senators, Montreal, Edmonton, Columbus and Carolina play like World beaters when they play the Sabres because they know that the Sabres are soft and if they push hard enough they will win. The good teams like Philadelphia, the Rangers, Boston and Pittsburgh just physically beat them into submission.

I find it appauling and gratuitous that so many of the fans blane the poor showing of this team on Ryan Miller. Without him, they would be even lower in the standings.

As much as it pains me to say it, I see no changes of any significance for the Sabres in the near future. Nor will they make the playoffs this year. They have not hit bottom yet, but they are getting close and should be their by the end of January. Beginning in February, they will start to win some games as the lazy, underachieves see the writing on the wall and begin to try to convince management that should be given another chance next season. It has worked in previous years, but I hope that this year management see throuth the ruse takes the necessary steps to improve the team in the off season.

by Geolover on Jan 5, 2012 5:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Ummm….so are you talking “dream on” for the making the playoffs here part? B/c most of what you replied to has little to do with what I say except the last paragraph where you address the future. Is that the dream on part?

I also did not mention Ryan Miller (although I’m pretty sure you’ve been harping on him and his “personal issues” haven’t you? Seems that you blame him some as well.). But, you can’t argue that Miller has not had a down year (or two). He just looks uncomfortable and out of position and giving up goals I don’t think he should (sorry to the “stats only crowd”….I can’t back that one up with a number, but it’s what I see). The Sabres basically have their system set up to have great goaltending, and he hasn’t been great. That doesn’t mean he’s been horrible, but just not what the team, many fans, or I would say even himself, expects. He’s not THE reason, but he’s A reason.

Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz

by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 5, 2012 6:29 PM EST up reply actions  

.
The Sabres basically have their system set up to have great goaltending, and he hasn’t been great. That doesn’t mean he’s been horrible, but just not what the team, many fans, or I would say even himself, expects. He’s not THE reason, but he’s A reason.

I would tend to agree with this. One of the things that occurred to me while writing my Ruff-piece was the role Ruff’s goaltenders have played in his success. One could make an argument that he is highly dependent on above-average goaltending. But then again, I can’t think of many coaches who have had sustained success without good goaltending.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Jan 5, 2012 6:57 PM EST up reply actions  

One could make an argument that he is highly dependent on above-average goaltending.

Oh, I think that argument is probably very true. The years this team was sort of floundering were the post-Hasek, pre-Miller years. It is also the reason that most years the Sabres are pretty good (to aree with your last sentence). The system and good goaltending (most years) keeps them in games. With one point for a regulation tie, this means even more points for a team with a defense first mindset. Most years it means they won’t light the league on fire, but it does mean they might have some head scratching years where something is “off” either with the system (player positioning or alleged commitment to it) or the goaltending. In a few weeks we will find out if it is one of those things, or if indeed the injuries kept them from being as good as they should be (by that I mean a slam dunk playoff team).

Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz

by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 5, 2012 7:47 PM EST up reply actions  

All great points

No doubt at all. But on the same token, the signing off of potential may not have worked. It’s debatable whether or not the “core” has lived up to the potential that those contracts were drafted off of. Yes, I totally get that it was almost necessary to retain them, but overvaluing that talent, depending on how you rate Roy/Pommers/Staff/Gaustad could be viewed as a misstep by the FO as well.

Good point about not drafting high enough to get a star player. In that regard they’re similar to the Bills. They ensure they’re mediocre enough each year to stay out of the “money” picks.

follow me @buffaloexplorer

by riverssyr on Jan 5, 2012 6:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, I totally get that it was almost necessary to retain them, but overvaluing that talent, depending on how you rate Roy/Pommers/Staff/Gaustad could be viewed as a misstep by the FO as well.

I agree with you here, but not because it was “almost necessary” to sign the players. Regier had a choice of whether or not to move forward with the talent he had or let them go in the future order to resign Briere/Drury, and decided on what I believe to be a calculated plan on signing Drury and the younger players. I think Regier decided that he liked Pominville, Roy, and Vanek and would not have decided to resign them if he had not believed in their potential. One of my main points of my original post was that those signings were not reactionary, but part of a preconceived plan. But yes, their signings could be conceived as a misstep. I don’t believe it to be so, though, because I believe it was the right move at the time.

by tpsabres on Jan 5, 2012 6:55 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Drury turned down an equal contract offer?

I’m not saying you are wrong, but I don’t think they were. Have I remembered this wrong all this time?

On another note, I agree with a lot of what you say. I think Regier’s drafting has been top notch for the most part. In the first 1/2 of his tenure, he was awesome with the trades he made in ensuring he came out on top. That seems to have waned for a variety of reasons (Among them: cautiousness, the salary cap, worry about fan reaction after the Briere and Drury thing, etc.) but overall I’d say he’s done a good job. But, if this team flames out for the remainder of the year….I don’t know how you can say a change doesn’t need to be considered. Most everyone here can say whey they don’t want to trade a lot of players on this team and say they have either too much potential or talent to trade. If that’s the case, they had better make a playoff push reminiscent of last season when they could do no wrong. I sense that could begin to happen in the next week or so as many players come back from injury. If not the injury “excuse” becomes just an excuse instead of a reason (if that makes any sense).

Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz

by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 5, 2012 6:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes Buffalo offered to match (at least) any contract offer he received but he wanted to play for the rangers.

Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Free to roam the blueline.
"Ville Leino may stink but he’s still way better than Matt Ellis."

by Ubiquitous on Jan 5, 2012 7:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh….I thought I remembered it being a years issue….or am I wrong? Like the were willing to match the $ but not the years? Or, maybe I’ve just blocked it out entirely.

Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz

by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 5, 2012 7:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m fairly certain that when the Rangers offered Drury a contract the Sabres matched the offer. That’s when Drury justified his going to the Rangers by saying that he always dreamed of playing for the franchise in Madison Square Garden etc.

On your second point, I don’t see the team flaming out for the rest of this season. With the changes made to the team in the offseason, chemistry should grow. That along with players returning from injury should make the team better during the stretch. Other teams are hot and should come down. However, if the team does falter and fail to make the playoffs it will be because of a lack of leadership: an extremely hard problem to address. I’m not sold on Pominville as captain and am not entirely sure how the team could even solve the issue.

by tpsabres on Jan 5, 2012 7:07 PM EST reply actions  

Sorry. Reply to bluecollarbuffalo

by tpsabres on Jan 5, 2012 7:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I stand corrected, but the more I think about it, I realize I’m probably (or definately wrong). I’m one of the few who has apparenlty blocked the specifics of that summer out. I was on vacation when that all went down and the only NHL coverage was in a small newspaper (not Buffalo-centric) with the hightlights being “Briere to Flyers, Drury to Rangers” and my family learned some new words that day (and drinks!)

Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz

by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 6, 2012 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

A Change Is Coming..

So, for all of you who preach patience, things will turn around and we’ll make the playoffs (huzzah!)…

I think the point of the piece is that there seems to be a confluence of events that are pointing toward a change. A, there is a new owner who is dedicated not to getting into the playoffs, but winning the whole thing. B, there is a coach and/or a GM who have been in place for an unusually long period of time, but never won that Cup(s) that would normally warrant such tenure. C, the team over the last several years (since letting Briere and Drury go) have been mediocre at best, reflecting poorly on both players and management. That combination could certainly lead to some significant turnover in management, the roster, or both. In fact, I think its more likely than not unless Pegula is an incredibly patient man. Given his public statements, I tend to think not.

Now, some may want Lindy and Darcy to stay for 30 years because the Sabres have had some good years during their time, and maybe, just maybe, they manage to catch lightning in a bottle and win a Cup. I suppose that could happen. I’d like to think so. It just as easily could not. So, I suppose the alternative is to remove one/both/several of them and hope for a better result. Not an outrageous proposition.

Someone posted above that they would never want the expectation to be that getting into the playoffs wasn’t good enough – what an amazing statement! It isn’t! One and done in the playoffs is good enough for a caretaker owner like Golisano who’s more interested in his wallet than championships or a market that could care less about hockey, like LA or Tampa. Not for a hockey-hungry town like Buffalo. Conference Semifinals should be what BFLO strives for year in, year out, like a Detroit. Do I think they’ll get there every year? Of course not. Do I think the organization and the fans should expect, even demand it? Yes. And the longer the status quo remains in place across the organization, the lesser the likelihood that fans will do just that.

by T McGee on Jan 5, 2012 11:42 PM EST reply actions  

Strive for it? Absolutely. Be disappointed if you don't get there? Sure.

But demand it and consider anything less a failure? Blech, I have my fill of Yankees fans.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Jan 5, 2012 11:52 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

WAAAAAAY off topic here but...

…I just got done watching that new Call of Duty commercial and I thought of a dope game idea.

Imagine your character is a bin. By day people throw trash in you but by night you use that same litter to address issues in the city through modern art.

by LanceArmstrong_LIVESTRONG on Jan 5, 2012 11:49 PM EST reply actions  

.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Jan 5, 2012 11:56 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

What about...

You play a character whose son is made of Legos. You have to detach bricks to make bridges etc. You need to keep adding bricks to stop him from getting depressed.

by LanceArmstrong_LIVESTRONG on Jan 6, 2012 12:15 AM EST up reply actions  

I don’t think I’ve seen anyone more deserving of being a writer for the site.

by Philaster on Jan 6, 2012 12:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Nice reference. You should take a look at that guy’s comment history. It’s pretty loltastic.

by Philaster on Jan 6, 2012 9:38 AM EST up reply actions  

He’s posted those two comments on every blog he’s registered on now. So now he’s a spambot as well as a troll.

Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Free to roam the blueline.
"Ville Leino may stink but he’s still way better than Matt Ellis."

by Ubiquitous on Jan 6, 2012 10:06 AM EST up reply actions  

I think PPP might think you’re some sort of bot that confuses and terrifies them.

by Philaster on Jan 6, 2012 10:08 AM EST up reply actions  

If anyone on SBN is a robot… its Eric T.

Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Free to roam the blueline.
"Ville Leino may stink but he’s still way better than Matt Ellis."

by Ubiquitous on Jan 6, 2012 10:09 AM EST up reply actions  

Let's give credit where credit is due
Sure, Regier has made some good moves throughout the years. Vanek’s contract has been a bargain for the most part.

The front office official who deserves credit for Vanek’s contract is . . . Kevin Lowe.

It was him who signed Vanek to a seven year, $50 million offer sheet; Darcy matched it because he knew, in the wake of the departures of Briere and Drury, that if he allowed Vanek to escape town, he’d of been the honored guest at Lafayette Square’s first public hanging in 182 years . . .

.

"If You Ain't a Bill I Don't Give a Fxck Bout Ya!! Most Disrespected Team in NFL! I Always feel Disrespected! I'm All In!" -- Steve Johnson

by go_buff on Jan 6, 2012 11:49 PM EST reply actions  

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