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Sab(re)metrics: Is Thomas Vanek Overpaid?

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It has been a long time since I had posted to this site, and I apologize. Since my last posting, our fair Buffalo Sabres have accumulated a 9-18-4 record. Of course, this poses a few questions:

Is my lack of posting and the Sabres poor record a coincidence? More than likely.

Is all of this my fault? I sure hope not.

Can you blame their play on me? If that makes you feel better, go ahead.

Now that we have that out of way, onto my post. Last time on Sab(re)metrics, I discussed "How Good Is Thomas Vanek?" Analyzing his play since the Lockout using GVT and Even Stength Scoring per 60 minutes, it was concluded that Thomas Vanek is a top 30 forward in the NHL. While validating his offensive worth is noteworthy, the previous post did not analyze if his offensive production costs too much, if its a bargain, or if its just right. I find this important because I have heard the complaint (less this year) that,

"Thomas Vanek is horrible! He is not worth $7 million a year! Darcy does not know what he is doing....FIRE EVERYONE!!!"

Therefore, a statistical look at Vanek's worth is necessary to validate the 'truthiness' of the above claim. If you want to know if ATV's play is validated by his paycheck, come take the jump.

Star-divide

To compare Thomas Vanek's salary to other top forwards in the NHL, the following was completed:

1. The Salary Cap Hit and Total Salary accumulated for the top 50 forwards by GVT in the NHL since the lockout was compared to their GVT.

2. Contour plots that compare a player's total salary with their GVT and another stat, such as goals, and assists were developed to analyze multiple metrics to a player's salary.

To refresh your memory, the GVT (Goals Versus Threshold) stat represents how much better a certain player is over a replacement-level NHL player. Additional reading and explanation on the GVT can be read in this three part article by Tom Awad, who is also the developer of the stat(Part 1, Part 2, Part 3). To show the data used for this analysis, the top 50 forwards based on GVT, with their current Salary Cap Hit and Total Salary accumulated from 2005 - 2011 are listed below:

Gvt_salary_table_medium

For the first analysis, the 2011 Salary Cap Hit and Total Salary of each player in the above list were plotted against their corresponding GVT since the 2004-2005 Lockout. These values were chosen because this is the only way to link a player's monetary value with their production and/or "irreplaceability" on the ice. Also, since GVT is calculated by using other offensive stats, it should be the best representation of how much a player's replace-ability compares to what they get paid.

The Total Salary since the Lockout was supplemented into the analysis since it is probably the best way to show how much those player GVT numbers cost over the time period of 2005-2011. Linear regression (black) and local regression (dotted blue line) or LOWESS smoother lines were placed on the graph to analyze the scatter plots. The linear equation and coefficient of determination (R-Sq) for both plots are listed on their graphs, while the degree of smoothing and number of steps for both LOWESS smoother plots were 0.5 and 2, respectively. If you are unfamilar with local regression techniques, this article on Wikipedia seems to do an admirable job in explaining the method. Also, all current Sabres players are green plot points in the scatter plots below:

Scatterplot_of_cap_hit_vs_gvt_medium

Scatterplot_of_salary_vs_gvt_medium

Observing both plots, it can be seen that the plotted data does not fit a linear regression model well, with poor R-sq values for both graphs. While there is a trend (a player who has a higher GVT will make more money), these salaries of these players are really all over the place. This is probably the case because:

  1. Some players are probably overpaid, while some are bargains.
  2. For the salary plot, some players were on their entry level deals for a few post-Lockout years. Therefore, they have not made as much money as a seasoned veteran like Vincent Lecavlier or Marian Hossa.

Due to the poor fit of both plots to a linear regression, the LOWESS smoother plot was added to the graph. Using LOWESS brings a little more clarification to the data set, again re-emphasizing the trend stated before. The smoother also shows some interesting cases, such as the convex and concave bumps in the Cap Hit graph and Salary graphs, respectively. Both of these "bumps" can be explained by:

  • Convex - This occurred from the relationship of higher salary cap number players (Vanek, Evgeni Malkin, and Rick Nash) and their respective GVT values since the Lockout. To be fair, Malkin has played one less year than Vanek and Nash, so he would be more to the right on the plot if he had that one extra year of playing time.
  • Concave - This exists because of the entry level deals that all player's have at the beginning of their careers. Therefore, the smoother has that dip to encompass the players who could make a maximum of ~3.8 million a year on their first deals (usually $800-900K salary and a ~$3 mil. bonus).

If Vanek's Cap Hit and Salary are examined in linear terms, Vanek "should" have a $5.765 million cap hit and have made $26.4 million in salary since the Lockout. Taking his entry level deal into account ($942,000 for his first two NHL years), this salary total would leave Vanek with a current salary cap hit of $6.129 million. Each of these calculated values are then 19.3% (Cap Hit) and 14.2% (Salary) greater than his current Cap Hit. Therefore, by analyzing GVT, Thomas Vanek would be overpaid (on a side note, all other current Sabres players are either underpaid or about right for their respective GVT totals when observing a linear analysis).

While this could be correct, there might be more metrics that could affect the pay of certain players. Therefore, some contour plots that compare a player's Cap Hit and Salary to their GVT and another metric (such as goals and assists) since the Lockout were developed and are shown below.

Contour_plot_of_cap_hit_vs_gvt__a_medium

Contour_plot_of_cap_hit_vs_gvt__g_medium

Contour_plot_of_cap_hit_vs_ogvt__g_medium

Contour_plot_of_salary_vs_gvt__a_medium

Contour_plot_of_salary_vs_gvt__g_medium

Contour_plot_of_salary_vs_ogvt__g_medium

From the above contour plots, a trend still exists where players who score more goals and assists and have higher GVT's will have higher salaries. Looking purely at Thomas Vanek's Cap Hit and Salary, his monetary worth seems to be more justified by his OGVT and goals Scored stats than his assists numbers. In both OGVT and Goal charts above, Vanek fits within a fixed contour of the plot; in general, this shows that his pay is similar to player's around him with similar outputs, as opposed to being higher (or overpaid).

Of course, these are simple contour plots with ranges of Cap Hit and Salary, where a range of $1.2 and $5 million are covered by a single color. Therefore, it can be argued that the contour plots provide a simplified look at a the problem, and are not refined enough to validate any claims. While that can be assumed, the levels were chosen to add simplicity to the contour plots, since too many levels would make too many colors, and too few would generalize the plot. Overall, Vanek's salary made since the Lockout could be an acceptable amount when compared with GVT, OGVT, and goals data.

Conclusions:

  • Both Cap Hit and Salary are mostly directly related trends when compared to GVT and offensive oriented statistics (G,A, OGVT) and using a LOWESS smoother.
  • If Thomas Vanek's salary is linearly compared to other top forwards in GVT since the Lockout, he would be overpaid. Of course, due to the poor linear regression fit (R-Sq), this is probably not the best comparison.
  • Using contour plots to analyze 3 sets of data, Vanek's Cap Hit and Salary look to be justified when comparing the GVT, and OGVT metrics to goals. This can show that Vanek's worth is more attributed to his GVT and goal-scoring ability, as opposed to his playmaking ability.
  • Both the linear and contour plots shows that the other Sabres players are either well-paid or bargains for their relative production since the Lockout.

After completing the analysis, it shows that GMs probably have not used the GVT in their figuring of a player's salary. While it is arguably the best stat to analyze the "irreplacableness" of a player, it has only been around since about 2008; therefore, any contract signed before that year could possibly not match well to a Salary vs. GVT analysis. In summation, I think further analysis would need to be completed to really verify if Vanek is "overpaid" or in how a GM really values a certain player's monetary worth. While statistics are used in a contract negotiation, other variables attribute contract size, such as:

  1. Salary Cap (Floor and Ceiling)
  2. The projected worth of a player
  3. The market availability of that type of player (i.e. Leino)

Using purely statistics, ATV's could possibly be justified to within $1 million Cap Hit and $2.5 million in Salary, but he probably would not have been overpaid at all if we did not have to match Edmonton's RFA deal to keep him. While statistics are the best measure of a players worth, they are not the only variable that is entered into a contract negotiation. Therefore, a true measure of a player's "worth" would have the include the stats they accumulate along with the three variables above in a weighted summation; this way would yield the most accurate value the player has to their contract.

I also would like to say that while I thought this was a good idea at first, I became uncomfortable justifying one of our best player's in this now dismal season by his monetary value. Whether he is slightly overpaid or the right deal, I personally think that is a keeper based on his statistical relevance to the team. Anyways, that is my personal view. Please tune in next time for: Sab(re)metrics: Mid-Season VUKOTA and SNEPSTS Review.

Comment 26 comments  |  3 recs  | 

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ummmm, What?

hahaha I’ll have to wait til I get to an actual computer to give this the attention it deserves.

by JSCoope on Jan 19, 2012 12:13 PM EST reply actions  

That's a lot of science.

To me, vanek is the only Sabre that passes the eye ball test on any consistant level.

I hate that I love Buffalo.

by bflo on Jan 19, 2012 1:01 PM EST via Android app reply actions   1 recs

I agree.

And I think it is too early to tell if he validates his contract….same with Leino, Pommers, or any other player who has years left on their deal. I really just wrote this to continue the thought I had in my previous article.

"We’re gonna win the Stanley Cup. Then, you know what, we’re gonna win it again,"
-Terry Pegula

by bgred105 on Jan 19, 2012 1:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I appreciate the article.

I just dont know if I truely understand it, thats a lot of charts.

But good work nontheless

I hate that I love Buffalo.

by bflo on Jan 19, 2012 4:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Rec'd

"I wore my knees out praying we'd win the 1st choice and could take Perreault. I never wanted a hockey player more."--Punch Imlach

by Sabresfansinceday1 on Jan 19, 2012 3:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Very good stuff here, it looks like you put a lot of work into this. I think this is a pretty appropriate way to assess a player like Vanek because his main responsibility is to score lots of goals and generate offense; I don’t think it would give a fair shake to a forward like Pommers for example. I think your last point is interesting, that you don’t mind slightly overpaying based on his role in the team – obviously scoring goals is an extremely important role, but it would be fun to think about this for other roles/players. Take Regehr for example, it may not be as easy to measure as with Vanek, but how valuable is he to the Sabres given the role he plays, which raises the question how valuable is his role compared to Vanek’s? Lots of things to (over)think about, which is a great way to distract us from the reality that our team sucks balls.

by Frank Reich Revolution on Jan 19, 2012 1:28 PM EST reply actions  

Thanks.

Another important metric to examine would be the Corsi number, which was developed internally at the Sabres FO. Examining that stat along with the GVT metric may shed a different light onto the value arguments of Thomas Vanek.

As for defense, I would probably use Corsi and DGVT (Defensive Goals Versus Threshold) to examine their worth. According to DGVT, Regehr is the 19th best NHL defenseman since the Lockout (also Ehrhoff would be the 5th best D-man). To value and compare players according to their role would be very interesting. GVT is an attempt at forging a statistic that can be used to compare various players at different positions, but does that stat work for players who are considered grinders, faceoff specialist, or PK expert? Initially I would say it could do that, but i have never examined that.

I am glad its a distraction…I was worried people may find this an indictment on Vanek, who is one of the only consistent performers on our team.

"We’re gonna win the Stanley Cup. Then, you know what, we’re gonna win it again,"
-Terry Pegula

by bgred105 on Jan 19, 2012 1:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Question about GVT:

What constitutes a(n) replacement/average/good/elite season?
I know WAR in baseball basically goes by increments of 2 (0 is replacement, 2 is average, 4 is generally an all-star, 6 is generally elite).

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Jan 19, 2012 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

A 0 GVT would mean that the player could be replaced by the average fringe NHL’er (13th forward, 7th D-man) on a NHL team.

As for standard GVT values, I do not know. I know that Vezina level goalies tend to have GVT’s that are above 30 (Ryan Miller was a 35.5 in 2009-2010 and a 11.7 last season). Vanek’s season last year was a 16.9, which seems to play him among the likes of a Patrick Marleau, Dany Heatley, Joe Thornton…players like that (sorry to only use SJS players). Crosby’s and Oveckin’s seasons two year ago was a 30, and the Sedin’ MVP years were around 25. Good 4th liners may see a GVT as high as 7 though (Paul Gaustad last year), though he also is a specialist on the PK.

All in all, I do not know. I would say (subjectively) that a 5-10 could be an average player, 10-15 a good player, a 15-20 would generally be an all-star, and anything higher would be an elite player for forwards. Hecht’s poor season in 2008-2009 garnered a 3.2 GVT, so even though he was poor, an AHL player or fringe NHL’er would have been worse.

"We’re gonna win the Stanley Cup. Then, you know what, we’re gonna win it again,"
-Terry Pegula

by bgred105 on Jan 19, 2012 3:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks. I have to keep reminding myself that the scale is different between GVT and WAR.

WAR uses wins whereas GVT uses goals.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Jan 19, 2012 5:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Note

(Jim Corsi didn’t actually develop Corsi for skaters. He used it to calculate the workload of a goaltender in a given time-frame.)

OPERATION TANK IS A GO. It’s the only explanation for Mike Weber. He’s on a secret mission.

by Ubiquitous on Jan 19, 2012 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks. I did not know that.

"We’re gonna win the Stanley Cup. Then, you know what, we’re gonna win it again,"
-Terry Pegula

by bgred105 on Jan 19, 2012 2:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Corsi and Fenwick and all these things are helpful to a degree, but there are so many variables that make it hard to compare players. Zone starts and quality of comp jump out right away, probably quality of teamates too. Regehr for example has always been a defensive d-man, playing a lot in his own end and against the top opposition, so he’s going to take a lot of shots against which hurts his Corsi and DGVT. Erhoff on the other hand in Vancouver was often paired with the Sedin line and got lots of offensive zone starts and didn’t play a shut-down role as much, so his shot numbers are going to be a lot better. In my opinion Erhoff is a better player than Regehr, but if you ask which is more valuable to the Sabres I would have to say Regehr at this point just based on the respective roles they play and the other players we have.

by Frank Reich Revolution on Jan 19, 2012 2:40 PM EST up reply actions  

I feel like I just opened up a High School Earth Science Textbook.

by Philaster on Jan 19, 2012 1:33 PM EST reply actions  

vanek + pominville

are the only two players earning their keep…. and of those two, vanek is the only super-star…. i think jason’s numbers are a fluke this year. just my opinion.
now is leino earning his money….? how about boyes…? heh.

by magecanuck on Jan 19, 2012 4:07 PM EST reply actions  

Based upon those charts

it would appear that Boyes has been a good value over the course of his contract.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Jan 19, 2012 5:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I did not realize that today was Thomas Vanek's Birthday

Happy Birthday ATV!

"We’re gonna win the Stanley Cup. Then, you know what, we’re gonna win it again,"
-Terry Pegula

by bgred105 on Jan 19, 2012 4:30 PM EST reply actions  

A bit Off-topic..

.. since I can’t pretend to know anything about the stats shown above.. today i argued w/ my Pops for a good hour over the Sabres, him playing reactionary “get rid of them all, they are awful” and me saying it’s all confidence..

I bet him we’d make the playoffs this year. i think we’ll finish in 7th. once this team gets healthy and gains some confidence they will play the way they did at the start of the year.

He did think that if anyone were to be let go it would be Darcy. that I almost agree with, but I still don’t see how we are supposed to properly evaluate whatever building they did off-season last summer when the full lineup has played, what, 1/4 of the games??

by joeysimms on Jan 19, 2012 6:37 PM EST reply actions  

I would agree to your last statement; it is hard to analyze the created team from last year when we have been missing many pieces for the majority of the season.

As for Pops, he would be entitled to his opinion :). I do not think a blow-up is the best option, since this exact same team made a great run last season and then fell short in the playoffs due to key injuries. Also, a blow-up would make us a team that would be farther away from success than we currently are. If we are to make trades and change the “core”, I would prefer it is done in the off-season.

You are very optimistic….I really would be surprised if we squeaked into the playoffs this year. Of course it is always possible, but to reach the low 90s in points would mean we need to really play good for the rest of the year. We do not have a 0% chance of making the playoffs, but with how we are playing now, the light at the end of the tunnel is difficult to see.

"We’re gonna win the Stanley Cup. Then, you know what, we’re gonna win it again,"
-Terry Pegula

by bgred105 on Jan 19, 2012 10:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I understand the point of Sabremetric type stats and their importance in diving deeper into the numbers, I have just never been able to get into them. This is a problem I have when following most Baseball blogs. It’s all advanced statistics and Sabremetrics nowadays. I love math, I just don’t think I have the patience for these type of stats.

Not trying to take anything away from your article. You put in a lot of work and the community appreciates it.

"If we needed any more motivation to win a Cup sooner than later, we've got one now," Black said. "I really want to listen to the game that RJ calls when he finally gets to shout out, 'Buffalo wins the Stanley Cup.'"
"Do it or Die Trying."

by FloridaBuffalo on Jan 19, 2012 6:44 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

hockey adv. stats are also in their infancy

So hopefully they will be better understood over time. Baseball adv. stats and Bill James have been around since the 80s (I think), so that could be why they have a better understanding and acceptance. I will never claim to be an expert either, but I think it is interesting to use them in player evaluation.

"We’re gonna win the Stanley Cup. Then, you know what, we’re gonna win it again,"
-Terry Pegula

by bgred105 on Jan 19, 2012 7:12 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

True. I also played baseball until after my sophomore year of college (Played JUCO Ball.) So to me the stats in baseball seem more tangible, I just get lost with all the WAR, PRC, LIPS, ERA+, OPS+, GB%, etc.. IMO, there is such a thing as too many stats. I can see if I made a living evaluating talent, but I just want to enjoy the game and have an intelligent discussion without bringing out my abacus.

"If we needed any more motivation to win a Cup sooner than later, we've got one now," Black said. "I really want to listen to the game that RJ calls when he finally gets to shout out, 'Buffalo wins the Stanley Cup.'"
"Do it or Die Trying."

by FloridaBuffalo on Jan 19, 2012 7:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't know if you were being facetious, but I've never heard of LIPS or PRC.

As for what you should concentrate on, I’d suggest limiting your scope to WAR, wRC+, FIP, and maybe UZR.
WAR (Wins Above Replacement) is an all-encompassing stat that measures a player’s value compared to a replacement-level player in terms of wins. Replacement level players are those that you find freely and widely available every year. It takes into account offense, defense, position, park, difficulty of competition, etc. The part that can be confusing is that there are different versions of WAR. I suggest FanGraphs.com’s version.
wRC+ (weighted Runs Created) is an all-encompassing offensive stat. The valuable part or wRC+, IMO, is that it uses 100 as average. So if someone has a 110 wRC+, they were 10% better then average. It’s a lot easier compared to wOBA (weighted On Base Average) where the average changes year-to-year and is not a nice round number.
FIP (Fielding Independent Pitching) is a nice alternative to ERA. FIP only takes into account strikeouts, walks, home runs allowed, and innings pitched. Basically, it works on the theory that pitchers (more or less) can’t control contact; therefor FIP ignores things like hits. and doubles etc. It’s also on the same scale as ERA so you know anything under 3.00 is very good, anything under 4.50 is okay, etc.
UZR (Ultimate Zone Rating) is the best defensive metric out there but can be a bit difficult to use. It has a lot of sample size issues – it’s recommended to only use data in 3+ year windows .

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Jan 19, 2012 7:45 PM EST up reply actions  

this post is great

Fantastic stuff. Great in-depth statistical analysis. As with the best analysis sometimes, the testing does not always lead to concrete conclusions, but nonetheless a great effort. By far the best statistical analysis I’ve seen in years. Very scientific and well done.
In this scientists humble opinion, Thomas Vanek is not overpaid due to the extenuating circumstances built around the signing of his contract. If Darcy Regier would have negotiated his own deal instead of being force-fed the deal by the Oilers, we would be talking about how Thomas Vanek is the best value in the world of hockey.

"Starting today, the Buffalo Sabres' reason for existence will be to win a Stanley Cup" - Terry Pegula

by willgarr15 on Jan 19, 2012 9:09 PM EST via Android app reply actions  

Just found a stat called GVS (Goals Versus Salary)

Link here:

http://islesnet.blogspot.com/2009/08/gvs-goals-versus-salary-stat.html

Next post will have to revisit this analysis with a quick discussion of this stat.

"We’re gonna win the Stanley Cup. Then, you know what, we’re gonna win it again,"
-Terry Pegula

by bgred105 on Jan 20, 2012 2:24 PM EST reply actions  

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