Ruff, Regier Rightly Refuse To Use Trade As A Quick Fix
by Andy Boron on Jan 17, 2012 9:33 PM EST
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PrintThe Buffalo Sabres are a bad hockey team. Not exactly breaking news, right?
And while it's frustrating for fans (and hopefully the players and coaches) to watch such a poor product, the outcry from Buffalonians to trade someone, anyone, to shake things up and spark the team is, quite frankly, foolish.
Now before you jump all over me in the comments, hear me out. I'm not against trading players on the team, and trust me, there are more than a handful that I'd like to see go. But there's no trade that the Sabres can make at this point that will provide a big enough boost to "fix" things for this year.
Lindy Ruff agrees, says Mike Harrington. This from Harrington's article with The Buffalo News:
How about a trade to help? Ruff said one-player deals only work once in a while. I suggested a multi-player deal and he wasn't buying what I was selling. "My responsibility is to get this team going and I'm going to take full responsibility for that,' Ruff said. "There is an obligation on my part to do the best to get this team going and I feel that's my responsibility. Darcy and I talk about every option. That includes trading players. It includes bringing up players and sending down players."
Whether you want to blame the team's disappointing record this year on injuries, key players under-achieving, a lack of talent, the Mayans, or anything else, the Sabres are almost certainly too far down the rabbit hole to come back and make a serious playoff run this season. (See how I left myself an out there? Almost certainly. Think positive!)
Let's face facts: last year's miracle turnaround was already seven games deep at this point. There was another team whose record was even better than Buffalo's at the end of the year - but New Jersey's hole was too deep to climb out of, despite playing like the 2012 Boston Bruins. So unless Darcy can swing a trade for the Western Conference All-Star team, I don't think one or two players is going to turn this thing around - that's only going to happen if everyone on the team catches fire starting tomorrow, and plays lights out for the rest of the year, which at this point is unlikely.
If the Sabres are going to explore trades, I'd much rather have them focus on getting better for next season rather than this one. Does trading Miller, Roy, Stafford, or anyone else for .50 cents on the dollar just to get them off the team help you in that regard? Then I'd rather keep the assets I have and hope they return to form next year.
We'll talk more about this as we get closer to the trade deadline, but what say you, Sabres fans? Are you just dying for a trade if only to shake up the awfulness that's been life as a Sabres fan the past two months? Can the problems be fixed in other ways? Sound off in the comments.
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I don't think a trade or firing is mandatory BUT
if we’re still trying to compete THIS year then they need to change something just for the sake of change. Clearly these guys aren’t going to wake up tomorrow and start firing on all cylinders. Something needs to be done in an effort to inspire and hold them accountable. I don’t care what it is just do SOMETHING. Use the visitors locker room until they deserve their posh one, scratch ANYONE not giving the effort, keep them in a hotel before every game in an effort to bond, compete within themselves CHANGE SOMETHING. I even think the fans have the ability to inspire them. I would love to see the effect that a raucous and supportive crowd would have at FNC. Especially if they aren’t winning. Something to prove we appreciate our team through thick and thin. It could be energizing. It won’t happen, but I’d like to think our enthusiastic support, especially in these tough times, could help trigger some pride and emotion again. They need a reason to have some pride right about now.
We have more talent on his team than a whole lot of teams above us in the standings so I’m inclined to think it’s a matter of heart and will and chemistry, even luck more than anything else. I agree we should hold off on a trade until our guys play better and perhaps we also get better value. Forcing a trade to appease the fans could make it even worse. Thats not to say there may be a good deal out there, but teams know we’re desperate. I agree with Ruff that a couple guys coming or going isn’t going to change this team because almost the ENTIRE TEAM is underachieving. Also since this season seems all but lost I wouldn’t mind preparing for next year and getting a top 10 pick in the draft. It seems so hard to miss on a high pick these days and we haven’t had one since Vanek.
by BillsThickNThin on Jan 17, 2012 10:10 PM EST reply actions
So the logic is...
There is never a good time to make a trade. If you trade when you’re doing well then you’re trading assets you don’t need to move because you’re doing alright. If you trade when you’re middle of the pack or on the brink, you’re messing with the “chemistry” of a team that might make it. If you trade while you aren’t doing well, you risk getting ripped off and are making a move from a position of weakness.
Same old, same old.
You're oversimplifying it
You evaluate individual players based on individual performances and contributions to the team, and you make trades based on the team’s short-term and/or long-term interests. When your team is winning, you focus on the short-term needs and if a good deal arises to improve your Cup run chances, you go for it. When your team is middling, you can seek a sensible short-and/or-long-term deal to help improve your team’s chances. When you are at rock bottom, you could fire-sale your assets for very poor returns, or you could suck it up and wait for a better and more realistic opportunity to improve the team.
The issue with the Sabres this year is that they were never in the position to make a trade while they were “middling” because the injuries confound(ed) the situation to a very large extent and made it difficult to address the team’s long-term needs. On top of this, being so close to the salary cap has constrained or killed any possible deals available. The only helpful players available come with large price tags and their teams will want value in return from promising young prospects. So maybe you could trade Myers for a top line forward if the cap did not exist, but that’s not reality.
Trades need to happen, but won't fix the season.
We need to get the most value for ‘12-’13.
I think this year is a lost cause. So I’m most interested in getting the best value for a couple empty sweaters we need to move. If that presents itself at the deadline? Great. Do it. But if not? Hold pat, trade in the offseason. It’s not like a trade at the deadline will push us up to 8th.
So we need to be patient on the trade front.
by kallinan on Jan 18, 2012 12:10 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No
The point is that this season is too far down the drain and there’s too much wrong with this team for a trade for one or two players to turn it around.
Die By The Blade - Your home for the best Buffalo Sabres talk online.
@andyboron
Rec
Agree completely and have been saying the same thing for months now (broken record). It is foolish to expect any decent trade return value from the current players on this team not named Vanek, Pominville, or (to a lesser extent) Myers.
And how about firing the coach? Well, it depends who you’d replace him with. No one is available with anywhere near the proven ability to succeed as an NHL coach that Ruff brings. I’m not saying he is perfect and he deserves to stick around forever, but if you’re going to suggest replacing him then you need to figure out who the new guy is. The bigger point here is that a new coach would not change too much as far as the major problems on this team (injuries, inconsistency, lack of physicality).
Any talk of firing Regier as a solution is just sheer madness. He has an incredible drafting record and he has pulled off some great offseason trades/signings. He did an excellent job under Golisano’s stingy budget and he got the best available players once Pegula’s wallet opened. The fact that he is not making desperation trades and/or firings right now is a testament to his commitment to the long-term success of this team. He knows that he could save himself from a lot of criticism if he were to just make a move to appease the media and fanbase-majority, but he also knows that doing so would only hurt the team in the long-run. He has been level-headed and sane throughout all these years, and he has drafted/recruited and committed to some great players for this team.
So who is left to take the blame? Obviously there are no easy answers here. The team is losing for several complex and interrelated reasons, some of which will settle on their own (injuries, luck), others may require eventual personnel changes (chemistry, physicality, inconsistency, etc). But making those personnel changes now would be absurd. Anyone knows you don’t sell a stock that’s bottoming out, you wait for the next peak first.
by lassathrax on Jan 17, 2012 10:16 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
My issues with that
I agree that the team is losing for complex reason, but there’s no guarantee that they will settle on their own. The eventual personnel changes that you have been talking about have been needed for years and years now. If they don’t happen now, it will never be a good time. Specifically to address that, with Miller, Stafford and Roy, they have been tainted as commodities, with Miller to a lesser degree than Stafford and Roy. Stafford has been branded as an inconsistent forward with upside, period, because that’s largely what he’s heard. The high is going to be tempered by the problems he’s had, which have been going on for years. Same thing for Roy. Roy’s contract is affordable and he’s a serviceable enough center when he’s not looked upon to be “the guy.”
I’m fine with not getting anyone super high priced. In fact, I think that’s the opposite of what the team needs. Give me the JP Dumonts of the world. The rest of this season should be devoted to giving us some hope and getting rid of the guys that we’re thoroughly sick of, starting with Paul Gaustad. That one is easy under your model: don’t resign him.
So who is left to take the blame?
The player’s on the ice.
Attitude reflects leadership. Look to the C and A’s. Other than Pominville, who in a “leadership” position has done a GD thing on the ice to shed the "soft" label and lead this team up and out of this rut.
"WE’RE SUPER FREAKY" – STEVIE J
"I’d rather lose playing to win, then lose being bored out of my mind." - dancam1
by BigBlkGr8Dane on Jan 18, 2012 8:57 AM EST up reply actions
In Before...
Lazy, Slow, Slug, Overpaid, and other discriminatory words that people usually describe Vanek with.
"If we needed any more motivation to win a Cup sooner than later, we've got one now," Black said. "I really want to listen to the game that RJ calls when he finally gets to shout out, 'Buffalo wins the Stanley Cup.'"
"Do it or Die Trying."
by FloridaBuffalo on Jan 18, 2012 6:40 PM EST up reply actions
Agree
Maybe it’s because I have only been listening to the radio feed. My (wholly underinformed) opinion is skewed because I’m not seeing what else is going on. I love Vanek’s game, I just have’t “heard” it lately.
Side note: Was suprised when he wasn’t named captain. Must have just lost the Locker Boxing tourney.
"WE’RE SUPER FREAKY" – STEVIE J
"I’d rather lose playing to win, then lose being bored out of my mind." - dancam1
by BigBlkGr8Dane on Jan 19, 2012 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
the coach has obviously lost the locker room
this team has not shown up to play for almost the
entire season.
they have horrific fundamentals.
they are poorly coached.
and their main goalie has been really bad.
i feel sorry for pegula, he bought into ruff more
than was wise…
now he is going to have to eat crow until ruff does
the right thing and resigns on his own for the good
of the organization….
my theory is ruff is burned out and the players cannot
take him any more.
they have all the signs of a team in total disarray.
Amen
It’s amazing how many people don’t seem to get that.
by ccthemovieman on Jan 17, 2012 11:25 PM EST up reply actions
.
my theory is ruff is burned out and the players cannot
take him any more.
they have all the signs of a team in total disarray.
Wait, if the team is in total disarray, why are you only blaming Ruff?
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
by Ogre39666 on Jan 18, 2012 1:24 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
based on their records
Miller HAS returned to his fair-to-middlin’ numbers aside from his Vezina year.
And Drew Stafford has found his 15 goals a season groove again after pulling off the Big Contract Year scam…
They both have sadly returned to form already Andy…
BUT I will agree one trade will do little to change things… since our needs are more than one magic player can redress…
This is by far the worst statistical season of Miller’s career. I’m going with a statistical anomaly rather than a trend until we see further proof, which unfortunately will not come until next year.
Die By The Blade - Your home for the best Buffalo Sabres talk online.
@andyboron
Thanks Andy!
I’ve been explaining the ‘McKinley Curse’ to non-Buffalo fans when I watch the Sabres play as an excuse for losing games, but I never considered the Mayan influence for 2012 … Thanks Andy for making me aware of another way to save face at the sports bar with this explanation for why the Sabres can’t win games this year!
That’s why we’re here.
Die By The Blade - Your home for the best Buffalo Sabres talk online.
@andyboron
.
Are you just dying for a trade if only to shake up the awfulness that’s been life as a Sabres fan the past two months?
Even if such a trade does work out, what does that get us? 10th place? Great, that means we not only miss the playoffs, but also miss out of a top-10 pick.
The best thing that can happen the year is we end up Nail Yakopov, Mikhail Grigorgenko, Radek Faksa, or Filip Forsberg on June 22nd.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
Agreed 100%...
w/ Ogre on the concept of playing our way out of a good draft pick and still missing the play-offs. I’m for a trade but there are players whom I feel should be untouchable. They are Miller, Regehr, Myers, Gaustad, Gerbe, Vanek and our young talent such as Adam and Gragnani. Everyone else I’d be open to hear offers about. Yes that includes Enroth who as we can see is not the almighty savior some of you tried to make him out to be. Mind you I’m not saying we should give anyone away either, I’d want real and immediate help for anyone we let go. On the other hand with all that said I would part with Leino for a late round draft pick, 3 pucks and a half used role of tape to anyone stupid enough to pick up his contract.
Do you believe in miracles? YES!
What makes any of those players aside from vanek and myers untouchable?
by lgbfromoregon on Jan 18, 2012 12:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'm glad you asked...
Miller – You simply don’t lose talent. You may lose confidence in yourself and the guys in front of you but get some better guys in front of him and the confidence comes back.
Regehr – The only guy playing physical defense. Has represented Canada at the highest level winning gold in ‘06. An all-star level defense first defenseman.
Myers – Big contract, huge future.
Gaustad – Great role player, among league’s best in terms of face-off%.
Gerbe – Great hustle guy, potential to score huge goals. Currently being misused as a 4th liner on a team w/ too many little men.
Vanek – Should be obvious why he’s untouchable; our only legit offensive threat.
Adam and Gragnani both have big futures. Gragnani has to find the proper balance between offensive ambition and defensive responsibility. That comes from experience and coaching. Adam’s production has dropped in direct proportion with his limited ice time and being dropped from 1st to 3rd line.
Also, in my initial comments I meant to add Stafford as untouchable. He’s being completely misused. He’s one of our biggest guys in terms of physique and his goals all come from in close. They need to acquire a playmaker to unleash Drew’s true potential. He’s not meant to bang in the corners, he’s meant to bang in front of the net and get garbage goals from in close.
Do you believe in miracles? YES!
I agree on Miller, Regehr, and Vanek
…although I believe every guy should have a pricetag.
Gaustad I think is pretty much useless by this point, plus his deal is up at the end of the year. Sure he can win faceoffs, but that does not make up for his shortcomings in pretty much every other aspect of the game. He might win 1-2 more faceoff’s per game than your average center, and for a guy his size is physicality is nothing to write home about. And yes, he is a key role player… on a team that has been notoriously soft ever since he’s taken on his role. Role players on a team that lacks on-ice leadership and tenacity are not doing their job very well.
Gerbe- He’s 24 (i think). How much better is he going to get? How long do I have to wait for his potential to be realized? He’s a decent third liner but if another team wanted him as part of a deal (not sure why they would) that was going to yield me a high-end prospect or pick, I would not hesitate to ship him out. He’s very replaceable.
Adam- He has shown very little that leads me to believe he can be a top six foward. He’s slow, plays with very little tenanity, and he’s a poor passer. Some of those things will improve, but he’s not going to get much faster and you can’t teach work ethic. You say his “production has dropped in direct proportion with his limited ice time,” but I say his ice time has dropped in direct proportion with his lack of production. Now obviously we’re not gonna ship out a prospect for another prospect or pick, but I don’t think we should be fooled in thinking he’s going to be a good top 2 center.
Gragnani- Good d prospect for sure. Same with about 6 other guys in the system. If a team wants him, which they might, we should let him go for the right deal because we have guys like him in abundance.
Stafford- I agree, to an extent. But I think he’s broken. He is a perfect candidate for a mutually benefitial trade. He can revive his career elsewhere and we can still get a good return for him. I like him as a player and would hate to lose him, but I really think he and the Sabres need to break up. They’re just not a good couple. Same with Roy, really.
by lgbfromoregon on Jan 18, 2012 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
You make valid counterpoints...
and I agree with a willingness to let Roy go but I propose this about your suggestions:
Gaustad – Can a team who loses so much puck possession due to our ridiculously futile dump and chase really afford to lose the puck possession that he gains us w/ face-offs? I believe we could re-sign him for less when his deal is up which would make him worth keeping.
Gerbe – You said you weren’t sure why any other team would want him and then suggested the possibility of him as part of a package deal. That could happen but it wouldn’t yield a high end draft pick like you said. He hasn’t been in the NHL long enough for me to give up on him and 24 isn’t old yet.
Adam – at one point was in the convo for rookie of the year, same as Ennis last year. Something is wrong in Buffalo that sees them drop off but I don’t think it’s all on the player. I’m respectfully disagreeing w/ your assessment on him and think we’d get more out of him w/ more ice time. If anything they’re giving more to Leino due to his inflated contract and taking time away from Adam’s development.
Gragnani – Of all the one’s I listed he’d be the easiest for me to part with. That said he’s got youth on his side whereas Erhoff and Leopold (our 2 other main offensive d-men) are not exactly spring chickens.
Stafford – I agree that Drew could revive his career elsewhere but we just gave him a big contract and I don’t know how many other teams would be willing to pick that up. Plus Buffalo gains from bringing in a playmaker to help him whether or not he improves. I’d rather add than subtract in his case.
Do you believe in miracles? YES!
My main issue with Gerbe is
that you called him “untouchable.” I think he has a decent future as a depth forward but to call him untouchable is to vastly overrated him. Buffalo fans tend to overrate “feel good story” players because it fits in with our blue-collared, underdog, “me against the world” persona, and Gerbe is a perfect example of this. He’s fine but you’re setting yourself up for disappointment if you consider him anything more than a role player. That being said, I love his leadership ability and I think he’ll be a guy that will hold others accountable. “I’m 5 foot f*&%ing 4 and I forecheck better than all of you p#$$%#s,” are words that I can picture him saying and I think that type of leadership would be good for our team now as well as in the future.
by lgbfromoregon on Jan 18, 2012 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I can accept...
that diagnosis. Perhaps not untouchable then. I guess he’s just one that I’d prefer to not see leave. Of our little men, and unfortunately that’s most of our forwards in my opinion, he’s the one I’d keep.
Do you believe in miracles? YES!
So you're saying Gerbe will be the next Drury minus the really nice peak years and a winger instead of a center.
I’ll take it.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
No...
I don’t think we have anybody who could ever touch Drury’s peak years. I’d keep Gerbe based on heart as a role player. If you offered me Corey Perry or Bobby Ryan I’d obviously be asking Nathan who?
Do you believe in miracles? YES!
Ah...
then yes.
Do you believe in miracles? YES!
Adam
I realize my opinion of him is not widely shared and I accept that. I can’t really say why but I just don’t have the highest hopes for him. I hope and I’m wrong and he breaks out tonight and never looks back.
As for Gaustad, I think bringing him back at even a reduced salary would be sending the wrong message. Underachieving players need to be held accountable and bringing back a guy who frankly has done very little in his career would not be a good way to do that. The team just needs to move on from the Goose. He might catch on elsewhere, but the Green Team needs a new spokesperson.
by lgbfromoregon on Jan 18, 2012 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
Too funny...
on the Green Team thing. lol. I think a lot of us lost a lot of respect for the Goose when he (or anybody else frankly) handled Lucic immediately after the collision with MIller.
Do you believe in miracles? YES!
sorry...
I meant failed to handle.
Do you believe in miracles? YES!
For me it's not about the quick fix
But…if this team wants to win a cup in 3 years (their stated goals), they need a major roster overhaul (regardless of the coach or GM situation). I think major changes need to happen, but not to salvage this season (changes for this season will be incremental at best). What I think can happen though is that salary cap space can be opened up, players about to reach their prime can be brought in, and then possibly added to in UFA. I don’t want them to bail on this season (I love playoff hockey) but I want them to set this team up for a cup run. So either, we wait for more contracts to expire or we move some players b/c we’ve decided to move on and get what we can.
Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 18, 2012 8:32 AM EST reply actions
i don't care about trades,
but they need to make roster moves. too many guys are way too comfortable, they need to be put in check by the farm system. we were doing better with the young kids called up. call them back…
Locker Boxing!
Helmets and gloves for the C and the A’s. Determine the leadership through good old fashioned alpha male dominance. Full team tournament where winner gets the C, 2nd and 3rd get an A. You listen, because if you don’t I will beat you up!
by VFN FTW on Jan 18, 2012 9:29 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
rec'd
and I would pay to watch that on pay-per-view
"WE’RE SUPER FREAKY" – STEVIE J
"I’d rather lose playing to win, then lose being bored out of my mind." - dancam1
by BigBlkGr8Dane on Jan 18, 2012 9:39 AM EST up reply actions
Future Bleak
Right now the future of this team looks very bleak. There will be no trades, they wouldn’t help anyhow, the team will likely improve marginally in February and March and I don’t see a lot of change over the off season.
I am convinced that as long as Darcy Regier is GM there will be no Cup in Buffalo. He has stocked this team with 2nd- and 3rd-line talent. Until we get a GM who has the vision and the courage to make changes when needed, the Sabres are going nowhere.
Center
Not dynamic but a solid 2 way center. Lombardi from the Leafs, Cullen from the Wild, Wiess form the Panthers. We are a team filled with wingers and need some prescence in the middle.
Buffalo/ Rochester 2011! Thanks TP!
by thenewhockeytown on Jan 18, 2012 1:01 PM EST reply actions
TRADE BAIT
There is no question that this team needs to rebuild its forward corps. Our defense corps is sitting pretty for the future and I still believe that Ryan Miller will one day win a stanley cup, and I want him to do it as a sabre. Give this team a fresh look on the ice next year and I think it will resonate in his play. In listening to his interviews, between the snide comments about the media and visible frustration, I hear a guy who still cares about the logo on his chest and has the passion to get back to the quality goalie we all know he can be.
So that leads me back to one thing, fixing the offense. Here is how I propose to do it:
1- This team has some forwards coming off the books next year so they should do everything they can to move them by the deadline. I see no excuses as to why we should lose Gaustad, Boyes, and to a lesser extent, Hecht for nothing when their contracts expire. All three are attractive rentals for a team that is making a run this year so get something for them, anything. Stockpile forward prospects, just like we have with defensemen, which leads me to my next point…
2- Gragagni, Sekera, Weber, Brennan, and Schiestel are all good (not great) young defensemen. Ship two of these guys out for foward prospects. It will free up the log jam and open up spots for our even better prospects that will come up next year, Pysyk and Leduc-Gauthier.
3- Ship out Leopold for a good pick or prospect. His 3 mil will be needed to upgrade at forward. This will leave us with Myers, Regehr, Ehrhoff, McNabb, and two of the 5 that I mentioned above to hold down the d-line for the following year and next year. Not a shabby d-corps by any means, and you still have plenty of depth.
4- Do the obvious and ship out Roy and Stafford for high-end picks and/or prospects. Forget the notion of getting a player in his prime in return. It’s not gonna happen and it won’t help our long term prospects.
Pegula should use this as a guideline and tell Darcy to get it done by mid-summer or he’s done. No excuses. This team needs to be rebuilt around Vanek and Myers. Make it happen.
Don't Afinogenov/Satan players
Once upon a time, people clamored to move Max Afinogenov when he was struggling.
Regier held onto him likely because he didn’t think the offers were worth it at the time and that his play would pick up in the future and his trade value would perk up.
That never happened. It got so bad that prior to Afinogenov’s final season in Buffalo, Regier tried to move Afinogenov for anything and got no takers.
Regier also held onto Satan so long that he dumped him for nothing coming out of the lockout.
Holding onto struggling players and hoping that they will turn around and up their trade stock doesn’t always work out.
Personally, I would shop guys like Roy, Stafford, and Miller to try and get something back now and change the dynamic in the locker room.
It may not save this season. But, it might make the team better.
OK, so it didn’t work out for him in a few cases, but it works out for other GMs all the time and I’m sure it has worked more times than it has failed, on the whole. The reality is that the sample size for Darcy being a “seller” at the deadline is relatively small, becuase his teams are usually within playoff contention.
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