BURN IT TO THE GROUND! Or Not?
Where do the Sabres go from here?
Was last nights’ 5-0 shellacking at the hands of the evil Red Wings the proverbial bottom for the stinking Sabres?
One could certainly hope so – because if the Sabres are at the bottom, there is nowhere to go but up.
The problem is, and I know that many fans feel the same way, is that it doesn’t seem like the team is done sliding, and there is no obvious solution to the problem.
In my very humble opinion, the two major problems with this season have been: Everyone has been hurt, and out of the 21 players on the roster, 2 have been playing well. Those are kind of major problems. Scratch that, those are extremely major problems. The injuries thing is starting to resolve itself, but the issue of everyone not named Thomas and Jason playing like they want to take their talents to south beach doesn’t have a clear answer.
So what should the Sabres, as an organization, do about this? Fire Lindy? Fire Darcy? Fire all of the players? #FailforNail?
via thejuniorreport.files.wordpress.com
(Nail Yakupov actually putting the biscuit in the basket. Imagine that.)
I think that the first thing the Sabres need to do, as an organization, is decide on a cohesive model of play, a philosophy of hockey, that they really believe in. I think that the current roster reflects the fact that there isn’t a very cohesive model. I mean, are the Sabres a puck possession team? An all-out offensive onslaught? A stingy, defensive team? A team with four scoring lines filled with undervalued super-squirts ala Gerbe and Ennis?
It seems like no one really knows. Detroit has an organizational identity as a puck-possession team. (Oh, and the best d-man of all time in Nick Lyndstrom) Boston has an organizational identity as a whole bunch of dirty, nasty, mean, asshole hockey players. (And they also have found incredible value in Tyler Seguin and Brad Marchand.) Chicago has an identity as Toews/Kane’s team, and Pittsburgh is Crosby and Malkin’s team.
So how do you want the Sabres to build? What do we have that we can build around? Should this team be Vanek, Pomminville’s, Miller’s and Meyers’ team? Are those the pieces that you want to build around? Should everyone on the roster be traded for a bag of pucks, and rebuild through the draft into the kind of team you think fits your organizational philosophy?
This is a fanpost written by a member of the community, it doesn't necessarily express the views or opinions of Die by the Blade
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I think you have hit the nail on the head here. They want to play one style, but seem to have a bunch of players who aren’t that great at it (or it doesn’t come naturally to them). Also, the seem to think that one or two “tough” players can make the team tougher. Boston has a mentality that rubs off on everyone. Very good point.
More depressing….there’s no way that problem (if it is indeed THE problem) gets solved this season regardless of the changes that are made the next few months. Here’s hoping we’re both wrong about this and they manage to figure it out like they did last season.
Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 17, 2012 3:18 PM EST reply actions
The style seemed to work fine for the first week of the season.
The two things that have changed since then are 1) Miller got his second concussion, and 2) lots and lots of injuries.
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2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
Yes, but what has been the problem with the team the last 5+ years? I’d say consistency…or at least being consistently good. Part of that can be asking guys to do things they naturally don’t excel at or particularly enjoy doing, so it doesn’t always happen in a positive way. Also, I’m not guaranteeing that’s the problem (if you read the last 2 sentences), but at this point, as players come back from injury, there are fewer and fewer reasons that can explain this.
Plus, the style worked fine for a week is the reason this theory is incorrect? 1 week?
Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 17, 2012 8:31 PM EST up reply actions
Not saying your wrong.
I’m just saying that the style/system seemed fine, then apparently crashed and burned.
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2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
Yeah, I understand. I’m saying that my thought process when reading the post was to thin about the last time they were consistently good and sound? Does a 1/2 a season count as that (2nd 1/2 last year)? Does it need to be a year or years? I don’t know. I just wish they would put a streak together so we had something good to talk about and I could say “I’m glad I was wrong” b/c I promise you I will say it and have a smile on my face at the time.
Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 18, 2012 7:52 AM EST up reply actions
think, not thin
Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 18, 2012 7:52 AM EST up reply actions
traded for a bag of pucks
This made me laugh and cry.
There is a “cancer” on this team. I don’t know what it is, but it’s time for Pegula and Black to find it and remove it.
Be it:
GM – Is there some truth to the comments made about Darcy by Toronto’s GM? If I remember it was along the lines of (paraphrasing): no one wants to work with Darcy because of unrealistic offers, and past bad dealings.
Coach – Has he lost these players? Is there something he is not addressing in the locker room (to the satisfaction of the players)?
Captains/Team Leaders – Does the C and the A‘s have the backing/faith of their teammates.
Miller – Is he broken (concussions)? Has he lost faith in his teammates? Has his teammates lost faith in him? Marital bliss (I’m not going any deeper into this one)?
My personal opinion is that fire sale it too extreme? I’m content sitting back and letting Terry try to fix this mess. This is his first test, and he deserves the benefit of not being weighed down by the actions (or complete lack thereof) of prior ownership.
"WE’RE SUPER FREAKY" – STEVIE J
"I’d rather lose playing to win, then lose being bored out of my mind." - dancam1
A few things
I feel like the Burke comments have gotten way blown out of proportion by TBN writers. What he said is that HE (not all GMs) can’t work with Darcy because they see things in very different ways. He also said that Darcy is a good GM and one of his best friends.
Given what Ruff said today, I think it’s open to question whether he is out of touch or has lost the team. He said that last night wasn’t the worst hockey he’s seen them play, that he can’t really do anything to help as far as yelling, and that trades won’t work. That’s not what anyone wants to hear and it doesn’t make him look good, frankly.
I personally don't care how it makes him look to the media.
He’s right. There’s only so much yelling he can do. He can only skate them so much. At the end of the day they hae to do it on the ice, in the game.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
by Ogre39666 on Jan 17, 2012 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
But if what Lindy does no longer has an impact, wouldn’t something have to change? Or do you just try again next year and hope the same thing doesn’t happen with injuries? It seems to me that that last approach is profoundly NOT how the rest of the league works, and if teams run Miller again, and they will try, then the same thing could happen.
Obligatory spelling corrections: *Lidstrom *Myers
Regarding identity: this team has one and they have embraced it. I could sum it up in a few words, and I’m sure you could too. Let’s hope that lottery pick is still within reach!
I’m going to rec the obligatory spelling correction. Drives me up a wall when people spell “Myers” wrong.
"If we needed any more motivation to win a Cup sooner than later, we've got one now," Black said. "I really want to listen to the game that RJ calls when he finally gets to shout out, 'Buffalo wins the Stanley Cup.'"
"Do it or Die Trying."
by FloridaBuffalo on Jan 17, 2012 9:46 PM EST up reply actions
I don't even remember ever seeing anyone actually spell there name "Meyers".
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
*their
Sorry….I had to do it. :) haha
"We’re gonna win the Stanley Cup. Then, you know what, we’re gonna win it again,"
-Terry Pegula
by bgred105 on Jan 17, 2012 10:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Boston has an organizational identity as a whole bunch of dirty, nasty, mean, asshole hockey players.
Wow. That’s the best – and most accurate – description of the Bruins I’ve ever heard.
by Katemc on Jan 17, 2012 9:37 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I found Boston to be a pretty awesome place.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
You clearly haven’t lived in New England. There are always exceptions, but I found them to be by far the most miserable and mean-spirited buzzkills I’ve ever had the displeasure to live amongst. And I’ve lived in Northern Virginia, so that’s really saying something.
You mean the people or the city itself?
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
Not since I was a kid
I visited NH & Vermont in college & loved both though; nice enough people, especially VT.
Spelling
Sorry about the spelling mistakes – I don’t know how Myers slipped through.
He must have gotten by me high, glove side.
I think the hard thing, as a fan, even a passionate fan, is that you don’t hear Lindy talk about the kind of system they want to play. I’ve not been a fan of another hockey team, but you hear other people around the league talk about Detroit’s puck possession, you hear Ken Hitchcock talk about the kind of play he wants out of players, but you don’t hear that kind of thing from Lindy.
by Andrew Brautigam on Jan 17, 2012 9:55 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Well the book on Ruff's system for the last few years was "activating the defensemen".
Last year he used Myers kind of like a mid-fielder.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
Derek Roy
It’s easy to embrace Roy’s “35pts in 35 games” 2010-11 campaign and project that over the course of 82 games, blah blah blah … But where’s the consideration that with Connolly gone, the Sabres are now fully identifying with and looking to Roy as a role model and leader on this team (wears an ‘A’) when his conduct and play on the ice, to me, suggest the very issues we as fans have with this team, especially since Lucic’s hit: THE SABRES ARE SOFT AND WHINY. Not that Tim was any different, but consistently, from drafting and grooming to playing this ‘Sabres style’ hockey, Buffalo has gone after players that will ultimately lead us nowhere. The post about bringing JP Dumont-style players back into the fold was spot on. Where’s the grit? Where’s the raw intensity? Who’s an actual leader on this team? I can’t see one, not this year at least. The team is more and more a reflection of the sad state of the city itself. I like Buffalo, but it’s hard to believe this team can win. Not with relying on Derek Roy as your “top” center. Of course, this was well addressed by fans before the season began. At this point I’d easily see Myers off to bring in a top center to build an identity (and eventually a team) around. I’d also bring Kassian into the mix to play out the year, but what do I know?
The veteran guys on this team are the kids from ‘05-’06 and there’s a fair number of them starting. After the Neil hit on Drury, Stafford was the first guy in there to respond. Can you see him doing that for say, Jason Pominville? I can’t. I’m not sure why.
When everybody is on the same level, it’s hard for guys to hold each other accountable.
To Darcy’s credit, I think he tried to address this in the past – Grier, Niedermayer, Rivet. I think Grier worked to some extent but all of those guys had so little left in the tank it’s hard to create the same kind of chemistry.
Stafford was looking to make the roster that year and would have done anything necessary to stick. That’s the desperation that’s missing from his game.
I think it will take a big offseason move for leadership in their prime to turn this around whether a big trade or UFAs. Is the goal the Stanley Cup? If so, that is the biggest thing that needs to change.
Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz
by bluecollarbuffalo on Jan 18, 2012 7:56 AM EST up reply actions
I think Stafford was drafted with leadership expectations. He was, if I remember correctly, the captain of his World Juniors Team.
In the words of Mike Lafontaine (in A Mighty Wind) “Wha Happened?”
Do the Sabres not have enough glue guys – or are their glue guys not good enough?
When I say glue guys, I mean guys who hate to lose, and are willing to get on guys about not doing the right thing. If you look around the league, the Penguins have had Sidney Crosby as their glue guy, and as their superstar, since they’ve been good.
It seems to me like our glue guys have been marginal NHL players – Gaustad, Grier, Niedermayer, Rivet.
by Andrew Brautigam on Jan 18, 2012 10:07 AM EST reply actions
I don’t think Stafford is the only one. Plenty of Sabres have come in with reputed leadership skills only to leave with….I’m not sure what.
Players with reputed leadership skills generally aren’t very good at hockey because that wouldn’t be their selling point if they could still play.
As long as 70 minutes of ice time is being doled out to AHLers and Matt Ellis, the Sabres are basically doomed
That’s sometimes true but not always. I remember Danny Paille being discussed as having great leadership skills. On the other hand, look at Daniel Alfredsson – he was a great player and a great captain. The best players develop leadership skills in the league. I think Ryan Callahan was a great choice at captain for instance but he developed into one. Kid can play too.
Is the leadership issue a problem with the coach being too powerful – is his presence/ego just so huMANgous big that there isn’t room for a powerful player leader?
I don’t think that Lindy is a bad coach – at all – but is there kind of a chicken/egg situation with the coach’s personality and the lack of a true locker room leader?
by Andrew Brautigam on Jan 18, 2012 11:37 AM EST reply actions
I think it depends on their personality
Leaders have thrived under Ruff. Stu Barnes, Chris Drury, Danny Briere, Curtis Brown. John Vogl bring up the fact that Ruff has a lot of trouble trusting new players he doesn’t know. That would be an impediment to bringing in a captain. I’m not sure he ever trusted Rivet fully. I just think that whatever the leadership situation is now, the dynamic the players have isn’t working.
I think the true leader of this team is Miller, but it’s difficult to have your goalie be the captain.
by Frank Reich Revolution on Jan 18, 2012 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
but look at how well it’s worked out for Luongo and the Canucks!
by Andrew Brautigam on Jan 18, 2012 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
I still hold that if the media weren't so self-aggrandizing and intent on instigating stuff
Luongo as captain would have worked just fine.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
You might be right – but you know, Don Cherry doesn’t like it, so it must be bad.
by Andrew Brautigam on Jan 18, 2012 7:44 PM EST reply actions
Darcy needs to GO!
I don’t know if this whole team needs to be burned to the ground, but Darcy needs to go.
He doesn’t know what good shooters look like.
Hecht misses an open net against Chicago tonight by hitting the post, but this has really been going on with a lot of players for a lot of years. What good is it being a good skater if you can’t hit the net when you get the opportunity.
Darcy does not know shooters, only skaters, it is high time for him to go and be replaced with a GM who knows what good shooters look like too.
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by The Buffalo Kid on Jan 19, 2012 4:56 AM EST reply actions
I don’t understand your argument… The players can’t finish their opportunities, and it is the GMs fault, how?
…
Answer
The players can’t finish their opportunities, and it is the GMs fault, how?
He picked the players who can’t finish their opportunities. As a matter of fact, he’s picked PLENTY of players like that over the years.
Girls use hair spray, Men don't.
DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND GROW UP BY NOT USING HAIRSPRAY MALES!
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by The Buffalo Kid on Jan 19, 2012 8:45 AM EST up reply actions
That is a very subjective trait to define, and I think Darcy’s drafting and acquisition records are respectable. Sure, plenty of the guys have not worked out (all rentals, Boyes, Leino so far, etc) but he has also developed and/or acquired players who could most certainly finish (Vanek, Drury, Briere, Pominville, Roy and Stafford in previous seasons, and a lot of offensive defensemen. To blame him for the underachievement level of the players on the team is a bit unrealistic, because at the time he acquired these players they were either the best players available or he was constrained by budgetary or recruitment challenges.
I think it is quite fair.
To blame him for the underachievement level of the players on the team is a bit unrealistic
Darcy does not know shooters that can finish. He has 15 years, 15! How much more time doe we give a GM who’s teams can’t finish scoring opportunities? Another 15 years? Lifetime carte blanche?
I mean c’mon, even a blind mouse finds some cheese once in awhile (Briere,Drury,Vanek). Pominville has 1 30 goal season in 8 years although he appears on the way to a 2nd, Roy 1 30 Goal season in 8 years. Stafford 1 30 Goal season in 6 years. All 3 have plenty of seasons between them where they didn’t even get to 20.
I have watched the Sabres since the early 80s. Darcy tends to get forwards who can skate and puck handle but can’t finish.
Offensive Defensemen? How many had a 20 goal season? How about 15 for the sabres without a negative +/-? That’s why I prefer the forwards to score goals because when defensemen take it to the net and don’t put it in, it leads to odd man rushes.
That’s not much in the way of goal scorers that Darcy has found in 15 years. Just keep that in your head, HE’S HAD 15 YEARS, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
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DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND GROW UP BY NOT USING HAIRSPRAY MALES!
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by The Buffalo Kid on Jan 20, 2012 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
.
2010/11: Byfuglien
2009/10: No one
2008/09: Mike Green, Sheldon Souray, Shea Weber
2007/08: No one
2006/07: Sheldon Souray, Dan Boyle
2005/06: Mathieu Schneider, Dion Phaneuf
2004/05: Lockout
2003/04: No one
2002/03: No one
2001/02: Sergei Gonchar
2000/01: Brian Leetch
In the last ten seasons, there have been exactly ten 20-goal scoring defensemen. Excuse me if I don’t bemoan the fact that Regier hasn’t had a 20-goal scoring defensemen.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
That's why I said
How about 15 goal defensemen for the sabres without a negative +/-?
because lassathrax is stating how Darcy is so great at finding these finishers and used great offensive defensemen, when i really prefer my forwards to score the goals and the defensemen to be assist machines. But this whole thread is about goal scoring and finishing opportunities. I am so sick of seeing Sabres players get open shots and clang hit the post, miss the net completely or pass up the shot.
Girls use hair spray, Men don't.
DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND GROW UP BY NOT USING HAIRSPRAY MALES!
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by The Buffalo Kid on Jan 20, 2012 9:21 PM EST up reply actions
Should say
But this whole thread is about goal scoring and finishing opportunities
whole sub-thread
Girls use hair spray, Men don't.
DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND GROW UP BY NOT USING HAIRSPRAY MALES!
Don't be a Paully!
by The Buffalo Kid on Jan 20, 2012 9:22 PM EST up reply actions
When did I say that “Darcy is so great at finding these finishers”? I didn’t. Let me try to clarify for you.
Darcy, like any GM, drafts or acquires the best players available while considering the team’s needs. When selecting those players, he finds scorers and set-up men alike. Plenty of offensive talent around, and a lot of them can finish. Without top draft picks, you can’t realistically expect much more than that from him. You also cannot expect him to have any control over the performance of the players after they sign/develop.
There might be good arguments out there why a change in GM could be beneficial to the Sabres, but yours is not one of them IMO.
Or you could argue that his draft picks significantly overperform their expected value.
If the sabres can get good play in the next 2-3 years out of their current young guns (Armia, Kassian, Foligno, etc) and significantly up the scoring potential and speed of the third and fourth lines, they’ll be dangerous again.
Plus, I don’t think that Roy, Stafford, Leino, Gebe, and Ennis will all have carreer worst/injury ridden years all at the same time again.
by Andrew Brautigam on Jan 19, 2012 1:51 PM EST reply actions
I can't take anymore
Burn it to the ground, like the roof is on fire.
flayed ones stealth mode
"Fleshling! Do not shoot! For I am one of you fleshy things. It is I. Your Uncle Stan. Can't you tell by the long strips of fleshy substances covered in bodily fluids? Trust me! I have fleeeeeeeeesh."
Ir's the coach
and the GM. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that out.. They are the only constants in this under-producing century. Somebody wake up Pegula!
Sabres have been around for a Century?
"If we needed any more motivation to win a Cup sooner than later, we've got one now," Black said. "I really want to listen to the game that RJ calls when he finally gets to shout out, 'Buffalo wins the Stanley Cup.'"
"Do it or Die Trying."
by FloridaBuffalo on Jan 22, 2012 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
I think he's referring to
the 2001- to present timeframe.
flayed ones stealth mode
"Fleshling! Do not shoot! For I am one of you fleshy things. It is I. Your Uncle Stan. Can't you tell by the long strips of fleshy substances covered in bodily fluids? Trust me! I have fleeeeeeeeesh."
At least tickets on Stubhub are getting cheap
If you want to see this crap product they are putting on the ice, there should be a least a few more wins in there you can see heavily discounted.
Girls use hair spray, Men don't.
DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND GROW UP BY NOT USING HAIRSPRAY MALES!
Don't be a Paully!
by The Buffalo Kid on Jan 23, 2012 6:44 AM EST reply actions
That’s some optimism, there! I’m not convinced this team will win another game all season (I’ll believe it when I see it).
That's the beauty of an 80 game season.
There is room for a few wins no matter how bad you suck.
Girls use hair spray, Men don't.
DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND GROW UP BY NOT USING HAIRSPRAY MALES!
Don't be a Paully!
by The Buffalo Kid on Jan 24, 2012 8:32 AM EST up reply actions
Again with the optimism… you just don’t quit!
I’m betting on another 20-30 games without a win. And I’m only 80% kidding.
I go to a game each month
this month was edmonton, Yay! 4-3 win, last month was Detroit….Boo over after the first period which led to blowing over $40 on Beer. So I have to hope for a win for next months game.
Girls use hair spray, Men don't.
DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND GROW UP BY NOT USING HAIRSPRAY MALES!
Don't be a Paully!
by The Buffalo Kid on Jan 24, 2012 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
I miss attending the games in Buffalo. When I lived in Rochester, I would attend about 5-6 games per season. Now I’m in Michigan and I can only see one game every 2 years, which is pretty much a guaranteed loss. I mostly miss having HD Sabres feeds included in my cable package, although I suppose nobody has those anymore these days…
I live in North Buffalo
So iy is just a jump om the Metro to the FNC for a game…….
Girls use hair spray, Men don't.
DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND GROW UP BY NOT USING HAIRSPRAY MALES!
Don't be a Paully!
by The Buffalo Kid on Jan 25, 2012 4:08 PM EST up reply actions

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