Pegula to buy the Amerks?
by krytime on May 17, 2011 4:47 PM EDT
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PrintWGRZ is reporting that Terry Pegula may soon be purchasing the Amerks. We should have seen this coming from a mile away, based on Ted Black's statements about the Penguins owning their own minor league affiliate. Heck, I can't believe I didn't jump all over it upon reading Darcy Regiers' comments in this article by Kevin Oklobzija.
The Sabres have an agreement in place with Portland through 2013/2014. If the purchase of the Amerks goes through, you'd have to imagine they'd buy out from that Portland agreement. That can't be chump change by any means, but it is definitely something the previous regime wouldn't do.
If I were an Amerk fan, I'd be jumping for joy. I'd also be disappointed if I were a Portland fan. No matter where the Sabres farm club plays next season, I think it's fairly safe to say the working environment on & off the ice will be better.
Right off the bat, I can imagine improvement in the facilities. Improvements in logistics. More of an "attachment" to the organization. Stocking the team with quality guys who may cost a little more, an example being Matt Ellis.
This is also a good move in trying to retain a Rochester fan base who loves the NHL,and specifically, Sabre hockey. I feel in recent years, they've taken steps back in that relationship, and that goes back to the days before they even moved to Portland.
Great move in my opinion...
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NEW at 4:14 p.m.: The Associated Press is reporting that the Sabres have signed a nonbinding letter of intent to purchase the Amerks. The AP cites an unnamed source as saying there is no out clause with the Portland Pirates, so negotiations between the American Hockey League, the Pirates and the Sabres would need to continue (yes, I believe they’ve already begun that process). The Sabres and Pirates have an affilaition contract in place that runs through 2013-14.
"Who else but Chris Drury!" - 2007
"Who else but...... um... yea.. about that.." 2010
T-Pegs doesn’t waste time does he?
by Frank Reich Revolution on May 17, 2011 4:53 PM EDT reply actions
Exiled in Rochester as I am, I’m thrilled to bits by this news. Looks like there are some obstacles, but hopefully it comes to fruition.
This is also a good move in trying to retain a Rochester fan base who loves the NHL,and specifically, Sabre hockey. I feel in recent years, they’ve taken steps back in that relationship, and that goes back to the days before they even moved to Portland.
You are so right. This city isn’t much for hockey right now, and those that are aren’t as on-board with the Sabres as you’d expect. Attendance for the Amerks sucks, probably because the Amerks currently suck. Having a roster of legit NHLers-in-training would go a looooooooong way, as would even the minor-league version of the Pegula treatment.
Oh happy daaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is surprising!
Its cool to have our affiliate really close by again; it can expand our fan base state side and incorporate more of WNY. On the other hand, I feel bad for Portland since they are losing a good competitive minor league team….hopefully they get a good team to move there so that they can experience some more solid hockey.
"We’re gonna win the Stanley Cup. Then, you know what, we’re gonna win it again,"
-Terry Pegula
I disagree about hockey in Rochester. Attendance has improved over the last three seasons of Amerks hockey compared to the three previous seasons with the Sabres as an affiliate. Obviously the affiliation change a few seasons ago got people thinking different but it was mostly from people who became Sabres fans first. Long time Amerks fans are fans of the Amerks, not just the NHL team. I should write a book on the last 10 years of Amerks hockey. That’s for another day though!
I’ve talked to my sources and it’s a done deal (I run http://letsgoamerks.com). The papers aren’t signed yet but there’s no way this deal does not happen. There’s some uncertainty but one thing is for sure, it should help to make all of Western New York excited for hockey again.
Nice site.
Hopefully, if this deal does take place, we’ll be hearing from you more often.
I didn’t question Rochester’s hockey fan base at all, just so you know. I was actually taking a shot at the Golisano regime for letting the relationship between the Sabres and Rochester suffer, aside from affiliations and the like. I agree with your statement here:
Long time Amerks fans are fans of the Amerks, not just the NHL team
How you sold tickets the last few years is beyond me. Having Florida as an affiliate following a cheap Golisano partnership is a rough of a go as it gets. Dude in charge of ticket sales needs a promotion.
When this goes through, what are you Amerk fans hoping for from the Pegula ownership?
In defense of Golisano
The reason he severed with Amerks was the former owner Steve Donner who was a complete slime ball. The city of Rochester wouldn’t deal with him either. Granted I don’t think Golisano was up for trying to rekindle anything after Styles took over based on the momentum in place with Portland. At least Pegula and Black get it that it’s the best way to run a railroad !
"I wore my knees out praying we'd win the 1st choice and could take Perreault. I never wanted a hockey player more."--Punch Imlach
by Sabresfansinceday1 on May 17, 2011 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Why the shots at Golisano?
It was not his fault. It was the former owners fault. You’re always fast to label him cheap aren’t you?
And the dude in charge of ticket sales only deserves a promotion if you’re awarding being bad at your job.
by twoeightnine on May 17, 2011 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ll be honest…I assumed Keith was correct in saying the attendance was up. Obviously, it wasn’t, and so I take back offering the Ticket Sales guy a promo. My bad – I should have checked the numbers out myself.
And yes – I will continue to label Golisano as cheap. I protected him in the past, citing the amount of money they spent on player salaries compared to what the cap was. But when I look back on his regime, it was obvious the bottom line was the only thing that mattered. It came out he issued the edict to not lose money year to year. In the meantime, the value of the franchise rose so much that he made about a 100M on the sale of the team. He could have sacrificed some of that without losing money on the whole.
It's impossible to argue with your logic
Never made any sense to me that a multiple billionaire who spent mucho millions running for governor with no chance to win, would give those marching orders to a GM. I appreciate his desire to keep Sabres in Buffalo but the love stops there. He was cheap !
"I wore my knees out praying we'd win the 1st choice and could take Perreault. I never wanted a hockey player more."--Punch Imlach
by Sabresfansinceday1 on May 17, 2011 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions
The value of the team went up
because they were bankrupt. They were close to no longer existing. It had nowhere to go but up in a hockey crazy market like Buffalo. The NHL found itself in the shitter a couple years after his purchase and has bounced back.
The Leafs were worth $280m pre-lockout. They’re now worth $505m.
The Canucks were worth $148m pre-lockout. They’re now worth $262m.
I’m not sure how you can call someone cheap for wanting to break even. Would you spend almost $100m of your own money on something you know nothing about just to save it for the people of Western NY and then be happy with losing $10 million a year on it? Golisano didn’t become a billionaire by being a moron in business.
And it’s quite amazing that a team built only for the bottom line has enjoyed some of its most successful seasons in its history isn’t it? Two Eastern Conference Finals in the six years since the end of the lockout. Making the playoffs four out of six years. Sure they didn’t get over the top but would Golisano throwing huge contracts at Chris Drury or Scott Gomez have made him into the perfect owner since he was no longer cheap, just dumb?
I mean come on. He wanted to break even. Would you rather have had the team end up in Cincinnati? You say he should have thrown some of that $100m back into the team. What if he did and then say he ended up in a situation like Phoenix losing $10m a year. He owned the team for ~8 years. That’s $80m he would have lost out of that $100m and the money wasn’t all his.
by twoeightnine on May 17, 2011 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
The ROI after eight years is borderline ridiculous, even considering where the team was prior to the purchase. I wasn’t asking for him to bleed money, and I very much appreciated how he saved the Sabres. But you can’t argue the fact that he did some things that were considered…cheap. I bet Teppo would agree.
I wanted to say something like that but it would’ve required more thought than I feel like mustering, so thanks ;)
You really think the Teppo thing was a no biggie? You really think it didn’t send a signal around the league that maybe Buffalo wasn’t an ideal place to play?
He was physically unable to play and if I remember correctly, ineligible for LTIR, so that affects the whole roster. After the dust settled, he was a UFA and certainly no scrub, but he chose to stay with the Sabres. That seems like a good enough argument against rehashing it years later.
by Katemc on May 17, 2011 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m not trying to rehash old arguments. I was just using him as an example of how the previous ownership went on the cheap. They handled his situation poorly, and only to save some loot. That’s a fact.
It’s just that Golisano was the right guy at the right time at a critical moment for the Sabres. He was the rebound guy of sports ownership; he wasn’t perfect, but some things you just settle for because you’re not looking at a lifetime commitment. His purpose was to save the Sabres from the brink and bring them back to respectability. His purpose was also to make a profit, and fair enough. He did all that, then he sold to the guy most willing and most capable of giving the Sabres the best possible future in Buffalo. It’s time to stop the recriminations.
But we should all definitely bitch about the Rigas family for all eternity. Those guys were scumbags.
rebound guy of sports ownership; he wasn’t perfect, but some things you just settle for because you’re not looking at a lifetime commitment
I have no words for this. I will say, I’m glad we have a woman’s point of view on this site.
He made a profit alright; too much of a profit. Come on…he doubled his money in just eight years! And what if Pegula didn’t come around? We’d still be dealing with the same short arm, deep pocket mentality.
Again – I’m thankful that Golisano stepped in when he did, and I tip my hat to him for that. It doesn’t mean that he as an owner gets a free pass forever though.
And I’m with you on the Rigas family. They suck.
The break-even marching orders
were given well into his ownership tenure when things had stabilized and there was little chance of surprises, let alone a scenario like Phoenix, that you use to make your point, occurring.
I have no dislike of Golisano, but it will always amaze me how a guy worth 1+ billion would worry about losing a couple million a year on a hockey team—do you realize he could do that for 500 years and still not go broke ?
The only logical explanation to me is his lack of passion for hockey and as a result his business competitive instincts took over and thus the marching orders.
"I wore my knees out praying we'd win the 1st choice and could take Perreault. I never wanted a hockey player more."--Punch Imlach
by Sabresfansinceday1 on May 17, 2011 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Just because the guy is worth 1B+
doesn’t mean he has it all available to spend. Look at the Fred Wilpon (Mets owners). He owns majority stakes in the Mets, Sterling Equities, and SNY yet has has had to take out loans from the MLB to the point that he’s maxed out his credit line with the league.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
If Golisano really was all about money
he’d of sold the team to someone who would move them to Canada – or moved them himself. He worked on a fixed budget that was frustrating as a fan, but he wasn’t only about the money.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
I know you're a positive guy Keith
but the numbers don’t lie. They’ve improved? I’m not sure how a drop of 3,000 people per game since 2007-2008 is an improvement.
2005-2007: 279,539 – 6,988
2006-2007: 293,545 – 7,339
2007-2008: 273,404 – 6,835
2008-2009: 163,188 – 4,080
2009-2010: 169,459 – 4,236
2010-2011: 154,890 – 3,872
http://theahl.com/stats/schedule.php?view=attendance&season_id=1
Before I was a Sabres fan, I was an Amerks fan growing up. I didn’t know who the Sabres were, I thought the Amerks were the professional team in NY. I didn’t realize the AHL wasn’t the NHL. I loved when my dad would take off early from work so we could drive up to the city to catch a game. I never got a chance to sit near the ice because it was impossible to get tickets there, the place was packed and rocking. We’d always get stuck in the upper corners and I did not give up a fuck. It was still perfect.
The current Amerks game day experience is one of the worst I’ve ever seen. From the product on the ice to the products in the concessions stands to the energy in the stands, it’s pathetic. Horrible hockey leads to a horrible experience but the Amerks can’t get anything right.
A Ryan Miller bobblehead is amazing giveaway that they got right. But it’s also a kids and family oriented giveaway. What did they do? They scheduled it for the same night as Dollar Dogs & Drafts night, a night that could not be geared toward families and kids any less. Not only that, they scheduled one of their biggest draws (the bobblehead) on the only regular game night where they draw any crowd worth a damn. (Because people like cheap beer and food.) So instead of getting two good crowds they got one and two crowds that should be kept separate.
To make matters worse, the draw wasn’t as big as I expected nor was it probably as good as the Amerks wanted. I got to the game early, something I never do because I buy cheap tickets from scalpers out front, wanting to make sure I got the bobblehead. Due to a family emergency I had to leave the game early, about half way through the first period and as I walked out there was still hundreds of bobbleheads available. Out of 3000 they were limited to.
And don’t even get me started on Dollar Night. Horribly run to begin with I went to the last one bringing a couple of friends who had never been to a game. I got two hotdogs. They got no hotdogs. We got six beers between the three of us. All because they ran out five whole minutes into the game. Seriously. 35 minutes or so into the promotion everything was gone. Fantastic. Guess which two friends have sworn off Amerks games?
by twoeightnine on May 17, 2011 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn’t lie. Those numbers from 05-08 are a lot of bullshit based on a ton of free tickets handed out by the Steve Donner ownership group and then counting them as attendance. You could often go places and find stacks and stacks of tickets. Blue Cross Arena was RARELY rocking with that many fans in the building to get those averages. Someday I’ll find the picture again of where a supposed crowd of 6,000+ was in the building but you can count about 1500 people at the most.
I have no reason to lie.. The whole point was that people think the Amerks were completely dead the past three seasons which is the farthest thing from the truth. Instead of inflating numbers the ownership group was honest and reported honest numbers. One thing they did was add value to the tickets instead of people only going if it was free. Yes, there were still free tix but nothing like years prior.
As for the giveaways, yea, they should’ve been scheduled on other nights to try and attract a crowd on those nights. Besides the Ryan Miller one no one really seemed to care all that much anyways.
As for the way the dollar nights are run and other things inside of the arena, you can’t blame the Amerks office for that, they can make comments and suggestions but have no real say. BCA is managed by SMG and they’re horrible. With this deal hopefully Pegula will take over managing the arena too.
by keithwozniak on May 18, 2011 2:56 AM EDT up reply actions
SMG is a shitty company that manages arenas. http://www.smgworld.com/
by keithwozniak on May 18, 2011 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks. I see you’re a big fan of them?
And please allow me to apologize. Didn’t mean to call you a “liar.” It was my fault for not doing my own fact checking, and I got caught in between two sets of stats.
I can’t imagine Pegula/Black would allow SMG to continue it’s work there if they’re as bad as you say. I’d like to know if the Baby Pens are run from top to bottom by the Big Pens, or if some of that work is contracted out to another company like SMG.
Didn’t take anything personal, no problem!
The Mohegan Sun Arena where the WBS Pens play is managed by SMG also. Maybe they do things a little better there, not sure, I’ve never been there.
They’re not that bad, just nothing to get excited about. The food selections are basic and these days people expect more than just pretzels, fries, chicken fingers, burgers and dogs.
by keithwozniak on May 18, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe
Darcy doesnt realize it yet but Pegs is going a loooong way to find a place to stash Regier away where he cant hurt us for the next 2 years while a competent GM is brought in to fill his shoes…
Try again please.
More tinfoil hat though.
by twoeightnine on May 17, 2011 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Note
Ted Nolan is currently a member of the Amerks front office. It would be interesting if he stayed on in the new organization.
He runs the hockey side of things--not sure of formal title.
Styles, the owner, is a Native American as is Staats the president and of course Nolan.
"I wore my knees out praying we'd win the 1st choice and could take Perreault. I never wanted a hockey player more."--Punch Imlach
by Sabresfansinceday1 on May 17, 2011 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
VP of Hockey Operations
"I wore my knees out praying we'd win the 1st choice and could take Perreault. I never wanted a hockey player more."--Punch Imlach
by Sabresfansinceday1 on May 17, 2011 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
How exactly does this work?
Does this mean that all of the guys the Sabres have rights to (Mancari, Kassain, Enroth, Byron etc) will now just move to Roc?
And Portland will be it’s own operation that will have to fill all of these vacant positions (assuming another NHL team doesn’t side with them and deposit all of their prospects with the Pirates)?
What about Dineen? Is he a Sabres employee or Portland. I don’t know how this stuff really works.
I'm no expert either
But Sabres will likely buy out of their existing contract with Portland and all the players they have under contract will play for the Amerks. Portland will likely sign a new working agreement with another NHL team. Dineen is under contract with the Sabres.
"I wore my knees out praying we'd win the 1st choice and could take Perreault. I never wanted a hockey player more."--Punch Imlach
by Sabresfansinceday1 on May 17, 2011 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
As much as the Sabres are going to want to do this, the Pirates are not going to make this easy as there aren’t many NHL teams looking for an AHL affiliate. The Amerks were having an issue trying to find someone at this point.
Die By The Blade - Where we've even turned ourselves around since January 1st.
by Zachary Zielonka on May 17, 2011 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions
There's a price for everything and we know money's no object in Pegulaville !
"I wore my knees out praying we'd win the 1st choice and could take Perreault. I never wanted a hockey player more."--Punch Imlach
by Sabresfansinceday1 on May 17, 2011 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions
There's the Panthers...
I think the Lightning/Norfolk contract still needs to be re-signed. Should the Thrashers actually move to Winnipeg then something is going to happen with the Canucks/Moose/Jets(name to be determined) affiliations.
by twoeightnine on May 17, 2011 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
They'll have to buy out/get out of their affiliation with Portland.
But then all Sabres prospects and veterans would be moved to Rochester. Portland would move on trying to find another affiliation, securing that first might be part of the deal with the Sabres. Dineen I believe is an employee of the Sabres so he’d stay on.
by twoeightnine on May 17, 2011 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I was just wondering that myself
Die By The Blade - Where we've even turned ourselves around since January 1st.
by Zachary Zielonka on May 17, 2011 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Could go either way.
But I’d place my money on Curt Styres keeping them. Besides the obviousness of not owning Buff & Roc teams, Styres has used both teams for marketing/outreach to his other business ventures and the Native American community. He’s been a huge backer of the NA heritage/connection to lacrosse for years. I’d say this comment sums it up quite well:
"Natives can use lacrosse as a steppingstone to better their future," Styres said.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/38511-ny-times-article-on-amerks-owner-curt-styres
by twoeightnine on May 17, 2011 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions
That would be a terrible thing I believe for any Knighthawk fan because of the reports that Styres has always wanted to move the team to Hamilton.
Die By The Blade - Where we've even turned ourselves around since January 1st.
by Zachary Zielonka on May 17, 2011 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Void might get filled by someone else as Rochesters a good lx mkt
"I wore my knees out praying we'd win the 1st choice and could take Perreault. I never wanted a hockey player more."--Punch Imlach
by Sabresfansinceday1 on May 17, 2011 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not sure how long their lease runs with the city.
by twoeightnine on May 17, 2011 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, they are just reports too based on the fact that Styres owns a field team now in Hamilton. But attendance has been down for the Knighthawks over the last few years.
Die By The Blade - Where we've even turned ourselves around since January 1st.
by Zachary Zielonka on May 17, 2011 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
So it's yes, no, or maybe
Kidding… interesting info, guys. I’m not sure if the NLL would even allow someone to own competing teams, though.
And ah, WNY has weathered the Hamilton storm before. Just keep saying no and they’ll go bug someone else.
Currently they don’t have a lease for next season for the Knighthawks, that’s something they’ve been working on. I don’t believe the stories of the KHawks being moved to Hamilton. I don’t think the market is that much better, even near Styres’ home.
As for attendance, see my other post about tickets. It’s been down because for the most part everyone has had to buy tickets, couldn’t just pickup free ones wherever you wanted.
by keithwozniak on May 18, 2011 3:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
Was just going to post something similar.
"I wore my knees out praying we'd win the 1st choice and could take Perreault. I never wanted a hockey player more."--Punch Imlach
by Sabresfansinceday1 on May 17, 2011 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions
so lets say pegula does buy the amerks
then the all the guys we have signed that are in portland will go to rochester?
Question?
We all know that it’s possible for an AHL team to be shared by NHL teams. Is it possible to have one NHL team use multiple AHL teams?
I think the maximum amount of players a team can have under contract is 50...
So they would not be able to field multiple AHL teams with those limitations. Check out this link, it explains it quite well:
http://oilers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=430807
"We’re gonna win the Stanley Cup. Then, you know what, we’re gonna win it again,"
-Terry Pegula
Players can be signed to AHL only deals though which does not impact the NHL contract limit. Example.. often you’ll hear in a season “Such and such AHL team signed player whatever to a 25 game contract or standard player contract.” On paper it’s the AHL team signing them but it’s really the NHL team making it happen to stock the AHL team. The only issue is that the player can’t be called up to the NHL.
by keithwozniak on May 18, 2011 2:59 AM EDT up reply actions
So could this fall under the 90 maximum player limit on a whole NHL roster?
Or would the signing by an AHL team even matter to that limit? That is a good point that I did not think of.
"We’re gonna win the Stanley Cup. Then, you know what, we’re gonna win it again,"
-Terry Pegula
There are 30 AHL teams, possibly not with the Winnipeg rumors, and 30 NHL teams. One team will have to be willing to split an affiliation or they would be left out in the dark.
Die By The Blade - Where we've even turned ourselves around since January 1st.
by Zachary Zielonka on May 18, 2011 6:16 AM EDT up reply actions
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