12 Questions For Christmas - #6
The entire Sabres nation is this morning holding its collective breath regarding Thomas Vanek - meanwhile Buffalo-born Marcus Foligno and Derek Whitmore have been called up from Rochester for tonight's game against the Ottawa Senators.
With the number of injuries to forwards, today's question on the '12 Questions For Christmas' - is a speculative one, especially for the armchair GMs among us, read on after the jump.
#6 - Does the defense corps stay the same until the end of the season?
Since the lockout the Sabres management has made it a point to draft defensemen high in almost all the NHL Entry Drafts - Marc-Andre Gragnani (3rd rd, '05), Chris Butler (4th rd, '05) [traded to Calgary], Dennis Persson (1st rd, '06), Mike Weber (2nd rd, '06), T.J. Brennan (2nd rd, '07), Drew Schiestel (2nd rd, '07), Tyler Myers (1st rd, '08), Corey Fienhage (3rd rd, '08), Brayden McNabb (3rd rd, '09), Mark Pysyk (1st rd, '10), Jerome Gauthier-Leduc (3rd rd, '10), and Matt McKenzie (3rd rd, '10) - and these are just counting those among the first hundred picks.
At the beginning of the season, the defense comprised - Robin Regehr, Christian Ehrhoff, Jordan Leopold, Andrej Sekera, Weber, Myers and Gragnani. Since then, Brennan and McNabb have had appearances with the Sabres. Joe Finley came up from Rochester for a few games too. Of these three, McNabb has appeared the most NHL ready.
While the defense hasn't played great, and the goaltending at times has been quite underwhelming, it's at the forward ranks where the Sabres seem to be hurting the most, both from injuries and lack of consistency. Do you feel that come the end of the season all these d-men will still be on the Sabres books, or does management package one (or more) of these players for a forward, preferably a playoff-tested veteran at the trade deadline?
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I see a pairing of Sekera/Stafford and maybe a draft pick for a top 3 proven forward. Just a guess.
Buffalo/ Rochester 2011! Thanks TP!
by thenewhockeytown on Dec 20, 2011 10:15 AM EST reply actions
What is this 2008?
Why does everyone recycle the same trade package suggestions?
Also, why would any team trade a “top 3 proven forward” for an underachieving forward, a slightly above-average defenseman, and “maybe a draft pick”?
Because maybe Stafford plays better with other people or just needs a change of scenery, maybe Sekera is better than what they have or is a promising two way defenseman.
Did you think we would get a draft pick and Robyn Regehr for Paul Byron and Chris Butler? You never know what the other guy thinks of your guys.
I’m not so sure about that either. Maybe he thinks a lot more highly of Stafford than we all do. Maybe he didn’t like what he was getting in return as much as we might.
I think...
they know Stafford needs a playmaker to set him up in his comfort zone; which is in front of the net. We don’t have that playmaker yet…somebody like an Adam Oates. Don’t get me wrong I’m fully aware Adam Oates doesn’t grow on trees.
Do you believe in miracles? YES!
by Up State NY on Dec 20, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
Give Darcy some credit here, if he could land a “top 3 proven forward” for Stafford and Sekera it would have been done. As highly as anyone can hope for Stafford and Sekera to someday progress, a “top 3 proven forward” would be a steal for that price. Maybe I’m the only one who thinks this is absurd.
Regehr, Ehrhoff, Myers, and Sekera all were either just acquired and/or signed new deals within the past year and Leopold is pretty critical to the defense when healthy. Therefore I can’t see any of them being moved unless it’s for the right player. That leaves Weber and Grags or the guys in Rochester as the most likely to be packaged with someone in a trade. For some reason I don’t expect to see anyone moved by the end of the season. Next off-season, however, I would expect changes, depending upon how the team finishes the year.
I still can’t believe we managed to find a team that wanted Chris Butler. Not that he’s completely horrible, just not very good.
And conversely...
wouldn’t it be nice to have MacArthur doing for Buffalo what he’s been doing in Toronto?
Do you believe in miracles? YES!
While geting top-2 line minutes.
He’d never get that here.
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MacArthur sounds pretty resentful of how he was treated in Buffalo. He didn’t like the system I don’t think.
Well, did he ever do anything to earn top-6 minutes?
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I actually liked C-Mac. He certainly wasn’t the greatest but he’d chip in a timely goal every now and then. He was one of the guys that I thought they gave up on a bit too early, although he wasn’t worth that ridiculous arbitration award.
I think the Sabres essentially banked on Pominville, Vanek, Roy, Gaustad and Hecht over guys like Paille, MacArthur and Kennedy.
My guess
The roster stays pat at the deadline unless there is a bargain forward to be acquired. Give the team’s cap situation, I wouldn’t count on it.
In the offseason, I’d wager that the defense remains largely intact as the depth is there, and Darcy focuses on acquiring more scoring depth through trades. In those trades, we probably lose Gragnani, Brennan, and/or McNabb along with some other picks/prospects/spare parts.
in the offseason
if Darcy is still here in any capacity outside of amateur scouting we have bigger problems than the short term ones we are considering here…
The problem with these guys...
is that most of them are the same type of player; a puck moving offensive d-man. I’ve been saying that since the beginning of the season. Regehr and Weber are pretty much our only defense first defensemen. Having puck movers is great but having too many at the expense of not really covering the d-end soundly enough isn’t doing us any favors. I think we need a lot more size and play-making passing up front. Therefore I can see one or more of our d men not being here much longer. I think it could be Grags or Sekera that goes and that they’ll be included in a package with one of our numerous little men; most likely Gerbe or Ennis. Unfortunately b/c of the poor defense Buffalo is showing and the constant injuries to these 2 lil’ guys I don’t think Buffalo will be in the drivers’ seat when the trade comes. I think we’ll have to settle for a best available offer instead of demanding a really great trade that immediately upgrades our forward corps.
Do you believe in miracles? YES!
I’d say McNabb is also similar to Regehr & Weber, but with more upside than Weber.
Smile.. tomorrow will be worse.
Also...
I don’t think Sabres mgmt. had any idea how much the team would miss Tallinder and Lyuman once they were gone.
Do you believe in miracles? YES!
Who are the potential trade partners?
Who are the teams most likely to blow up their team this year if things keep going the way they have been? Colorado? TB? Any of the teams who fired their coach early in the season?
by Frank Reich Revolution on Dec 20, 2011 1:21 PM EST reply actions
In my mind it depends how Pegula/Regier/Ruff/Black view the team and what their plan from the beginning entailed.
If they see it at year one in their plan to take a good team and let it grow into a great one, then I doubt we’ll see anything. Let guys like McNabb grow and force their way into the NHL.
If they see it at step 1 in the master plan to remake the team, then we could be in for some movement. My guess would be a veteran like Leopold could be moved for a high pick or high-end prospect or Grags could be moved for a Bobby Ryan-esque top-line forward.
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Agreed on the idea of mgmts. plan...
although I like Leopold and had him pegged as our captain before Pominville was named I could see him being moved simply b/c he’s one of the older heads on a younger team. Also when I suggested Bobby Ryan in the past I was lampooned with negative comments about him but he or Patrick Kane would be my #1 target in a world w/out red tape.
Do you believe in miracles? YES!
The problem with Ryan is that he’s been criticized for taking shifts off. He would become an instant scapegoat here. He’s like Drew Stafford with a lot more talent. But he’s by no means consistent. He had a great playoff in 2007. Since then, it’s been hit or miss. Kane is Kane.
This is where Ruff comes in.
He did it with Vanek, I think he can do it with Ryan. And even if he does take shifts off, he still manages to score 30 goals a year, every year.
Of course there are still some morons who call Vanek lazy, but you can’t aim to please the idiots.
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I know Anaheim has been horrible but Ryan is -8. He’s scored 17 points on what should be one of the best if not the best lines in the league. He doesn’t strike me as someone who would thrive here. If it was the right deal, then maybe, but I’d be wary of giving up too much for him.
He's scored 30 goals a year every year since his rookie debut of 23 games.
He’s averaging about 1 goal every 3 games this year while constant trade rumors were swirling and his coach had it out for him.
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I’m not disputing that he’ll get 30 again this year in Anaheim. My argument is a.) I don’t think he’d necessarily be a lock to get 30 goals a year here. He would not be playing with Perry and Getzlaf. b.) As soon as he got here and played say, 7 games without a goal, you’d have a bunch of people calling up WGR or hell, posting here that he wasn’t worth whatever it took to get him c.) We might have to give up too much to get him, in terms of talent and cap room d.) We really need a Center a lot more.
I think he will be cheaper than a 30-goal-a-year center.
If he’s not then, yeah, we should look elsewhere. But if the price is Stafford, Grags, Schiestel, and a pick, then I think we’d have to pull the trigger.
With regards to point B, I don’t think the front office really cares what the chicken littles of Buffalo think – nor should they. The moment they start making personnel decisions based on the whims of the fringe fans, that’s the moment they are no longer capable of running an NHL team.
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I don’t foresee a world where Chicago is at the top of the league and they trade Patrick Kane. I also do not foresee Patrick Kane ever becoming a free agent in Chicago. So our only hope of ever seeing Kane in a Sabres sweater is that the Blackhawks tank (unlikely with that talent) and they choose to unload his contract in an effort to rebuild.
"Starting today, the Buffalo Sabres' reason for existence will be to win a Stanley Cup" - Terry Pegula
Chicago dumped half their team to they could shape the franchise around Toews, Kane, Keith & Seabrook. That’s not a core that’s going to be split any time soon. That said, nothing would delight me more than if they send Patrick Sharp our way. I can’t think of another NHL forward in this prime that gives you that much versatility at such a reasonable price.
by Katemc on Dec 20, 2011 2:45 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Agreed
"Starting today, the Buffalo Sabres' reason for existence will be to win a Stanley Cup" - Terry Pegula
Also agreed...
about Kane which is why I put the qualifying remark ‘in a word w/out red tape.’ I believe Kane will eventually come to Buffalo but it’ll be as an obligatory signing of the home town lad at the tail end of his career when the magic is gone.
Do you believe in miracles? YES!
No Change Seen
I think management feels they have a Cup contender in the team that takes to the ice each game. Of course, we fans know better, but we don’t matter to the players and management likes to keep its head in the sand.
In an ideal world with a wheeler dealter GM, there would be many changes to the roster.
Some of the posible trades could involve Myers, Sekera, Ennis, Boyes (he would be a hard sell, though), Roy, Enroth, Stafford and Kaleta. I’d give them all up for a first-line center. We have a plethora a good players in the pipeline; there is no good reason we have to continue with the same underperforming players year after year waiting for them to develop.
For all the wheeling and dealing Brian Burke does, do you feel the Leafs are closer to being a Cup contender than the Sabres are?
Smile.. tomorrow will be worse.
I’m definitely not dismissing that question as quickly as I would have last year.
by Frank Reich Revolution on Dec 20, 2011 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
Because they finally got a return on the Kessel trade?
It still cost them Seguin and Dougie Hamilton.
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2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
Great column with great discussion.
Loving the column. Is there a way to make it last all season. Rarely on DBTB does a column not about breaking news or not about something/someone controversial get this amount of comments in 7 hours. I think you guys have found a good format for a season long (and maybe offseason) column. The only problem is have is everyone else already took all my thoughts other than my own general: This organization has lots of “assets” but they are only assets if you are willing to use them some day. They might have to give up a guy they know will be a good NHL player at whatever point management decides they need to go all in for a Stanley Cup. I don’t think that’s this season, though. It might be next season, but more likely, it will be the season after that. Then I think you may see a blue-chip prospect traded for a guy for the final push.
Thank you thank you thank you thank you sireric for bringing the furious punching cat back into my life. - poz
by bluecollarbuffalo on Dec 20, 2011 5:18 PM EST reply actions
None are dealt
Our new coach will feel he can work with what he’s got and not try to mortgage the future! OK, probably not, don’t think Lindy is going anywhere. With that, my hope is that there is a true C out there on the block and we can offer up some of this talent in the pipeline for him. Geo was spot on with his remark about needing a top line C, although I might offer a bit less than what he’s willing to! That and Jarome Iginla, since it’s almost Christmas and I can wish for whatever I want!!
by buffaloparks on Dec 20, 2011 6:21 PM EST via mobile reply actions
watch Chiarelli in Boston
take his 2-plus mil cap space and a player or two to get Iginla.
Where else would he go under his No Trade clause where he could win a Cup?
They’ll worry about ‘cap jail’ after the next parade…
Oh man...
The thought of Iginla in Boston is too much! I can totally see it too…maybe Robyn and Leo can entice him to Hockey Heaven?! A Wish List series of articles should come after this 12 days/questions pieces! I wish we would have let Lindy go before Cunneyworth and Dineen were head coaches…I wish we could have a top line C…I wish Miller wasn’t a head case. I really more of an optimist but it’s nice to dream!
by buffaloparks on Dec 20, 2011 9:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
TRADE
All I want for X- MAS is to see Miller traded and FIRE RUFF AND RIEGER and bring BACK NOLAN
Solutions....
There are so many people currently clamoring for Ruff’s head now, as if terminating him is going to be the key to hockey “Valhalla”. For those, please check on the last 10 games or so regarding teams that have fired their HC…the records indicate that they are doing about the same as prior to terminating the HC. Firing Ruff offers a simplistic solution to what is a very complex problem. Also, for those saying that the current injuries are an “excuse”…it’s not an excuse, it’s a reality that has to be considered when overall performance is assessed.
Many people think that Pegula is a blind “homer” who just happens to have money. I disagree. In many ways, running a hockey business is no different than running a natural gas drilling business. They are both “businesses”. Performances in both are assessed, non-achievers are terminated, etc. There will be an accounting at season’s end, and anyone perceived as an impediment will be dealt with in one way or another
Just my thoughts, disagree if you must.
by jimmie123 on Dec 21, 2011 9:38 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Glad you brought that up
I’m assuming if a project in Pegula’s gas drilling business is going badly, running over-budget and out of scope, he wouldn’t necessarily fire the project manager and his staff mid-project. He’d probably wait until the project is done to do his accounting and assessment, and then see how to proceed.
Of course, as he has already shown, the man does have his limits and the PM is not going to have immunity to do anything he pleases.
Smile.. tomorrow will be worse.
You should comment more.
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by Ogre39666 on Dec 21, 2011 1:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Veteran Forward != Stanley Cup
Can anyone tell me the last time a team traded away some good young players & prospects for a veteran, and it landed them the Stanley Cup? Then continued to provide returns year after year?
Teams win or lose with their core. And I can’t see the Sabres landing any forward that would immediately become part of that core.
Keep MAGs, he’ll get better.
People forget
It wasn’t as if Briere and Drury came in and changed the team overnight. They were both with the team in 03-04 when they were horrible. When Miro Satan was dialing his agent in his goal celebrations. They came in and formed the core in their own image after Satan and Zhitnik were dispensed with. There would be no guarantee that this core would mesh with another strong leader. That’s what makes it tricky as much as we all want it to happen.
Yeah, you could pretty much make this argument for 80% of the Cup champs since the lockout. I guess the real question is how much did those guys contribute? Did they transform a terrible team into a true contender? The obvious answer is obvious, especially in Kelly’s case.
Yeah, you only usually see complimentary pieces.
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