12 Questions For Christmas - #9

by Calvin on Dec 17, 2011 3:30 PM EST

Saying the first game of the year for the Buffalo Sabres against the Toronto Maple Leafs was interesting is quite the understatement. Right from the onset when the Sabres got booed coming onto the ice by the very large contingent of Leafs fans you knew that it would be different. In the end the Sabres held on and Ryan Miller still owns the Leafs, currently at 25-11-0. Tonight the Sabres play at another injury-ravaged team Pittsburgh Penguins, hoping to string together back-to-back wins.

Now on to today's question in the '12 Questions for Christmas' segment. Apart from Ville Leino, arguably no other player on the current roster draws more ire from the fans than Marc-Andre Gragnani. Read on after the break for more.

#9 - What should the Sabres do with Marc-Andre Gragnani?

Gragnani burst into the limelight in the first round playoff series against the Philadelphia Flyers last year, leading the Sabres in scoring as the powerplay quarterback. Previous to that, he had only played thirteen games for the Sabres, and is still considered a rookie by the statisticians. The 3rd round pick in the 2005 entry draft, Gragnani is 6'1" and 201lbs but you wouldn't know it from his contact-shy approach to the game. He is blessed with good vision and excellent puckhandling, especially when not under a heavy forecheck.

The defenseman made the roster coming out of training camp and has played 29 games this year, with 1G & 8A, leading the team with +12. A fixture on the powerplay units, injuries on the squad have forced Lindy Ruff to use him in the last couple of games as this season's Nathan Paetsch reincarnate.

It all sounds good so far doesn't it? He has however been guilty of committing some horrible turnovers on both sides of the red line, the most recent leading to an OT loss against the Flyers. That combined with his lack of physical presence has led to raising the hackles of Sabres fans everywhere. His play this year has been eerily similar to that of Andrej Sekera from a couple of years ago - quick, puck-moving d-man who likes to get up the ice, gives up the puck often at crucial junctures and looks more suited to the hockey played in the immediate seasons after the lockout than now.

Believe it or not, the team skates better with him on ice. Statheads will gladly point you to his relative Corsi Number of 20.0, which puts him at 3rd in the League among d-men, ahead of elite players like Zdeno Chara and Nicklas Lidstrom (for a quick tutorial on the relevance of the Corsi Number, click here). Very few teams in the League are as dependent on a d-man to generate offense as the Sabres are with Gragnani.

So now that the stats are out of the way, on to your opinions. Should the Sabres keep the faith with him and let him mature like they did with Sekera? If that is the case, what would be the ideal d-man pairing for him? Or should they attempt to trade him now (or at the deadline), either on his own or as part of a package deal for the big, top six center that fans have been clamoring for?

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One Vote For Keep...

…but he needs to sit down now and again, not get more minutes. Instead of Sekera, he kind of reminds me more of early Brian Campbell. A wiz with the puck, good very passer in the O Zone, rarely shoots, falters under the forecheck. He doesn’t dance as much as Soupy did, but he is even less physical.

He can certainly play at this level – he was dynamite in the Flyers series last year until Game 7 – but he needs to develop some mental toughness and make better, faster, simpler decisions in his own zone. You can get by in this league if you aren’t physical – look at Lidstrom – but you need to be smart with and without the puck on both ends to do so. Right now, MAG is neither of those things. But in a couple years? Could be among the league leaders in assists (see Campbell)!

If it comes down to McNabb or MAG, though…I’ll take McNabb every day of the week.

by T McGee on Dec 17, 2011 4:46 PM EST reply actions 2 recs

The Amerks called...

they want their 3rd string d-man back.

Do you believe in miracles? YES!

by Up State NY on Dec 17, 2011 4:59 PM EST reply actions

I’m not sure what this means but if you’re referring to Mags, I’m sure they could use the 60 points in 63 games and +22 he put up last year in the AHL. But unfortunately for them he’s on the Sabres now.

by Frank Reich Revolution on Dec 17, 2011 5:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

Forgot to mention the “AHL Defenseman of the Year” award.

"If we needed any more motivation to win a Cup sooner than later, we've got one now," Black said. "I really want to listen to the game that RJ calls when he finally gets to shout out, 'Buffalo wins the Stanley Cup.'"
"Do it or Die Trying."

by FloridaBuffalo on Dec 17, 2011 6:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

The Amerks called...

The want their ~~3rd string~~ best d-man in the entire league back.

by Frank Reich Revolution on Dec 17, 2011 6:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

MAG is here to stay!

I was surprised to see his Corsi and +/- numbers. He’s made a few boneheaded plays in some very noticeable times which impacts the perception of him. His non physical style also impacts perception. The reality is like what was mentioned above…he’s going to be very good if he can make some quicker and simpler decisions while under duress. I think he needs to be paired with someone like Leopold that is level headed and can calm with the puck.

by buffaloparks on Dec 17, 2011 5:04 PM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs

Trade Him? You Gotta Be Kidding

The plus 12 speaks for itself. Some fans are just idiots. Even Regehr makes mistakes and he is a seasoned professional. The kid will learn from his mistakes and be a top notch defenseman in a few years.

What I don’t understand is why the fans are so tolerant of Myers. He is a bumbling fool. He can’t stickhandle, he gives away the puck much too often and he is often out of position. I shudder every time I see him try to move the puck. He doesn’t even use his size to muscle the opposition players. If anyone should be traded, Myers needs to be traded while we can still get something for him.

by Geolover on Dec 17, 2011 6:03 PM EST reply actions

Some fans are just idiots

Myers needs to be traded

Your second quote validates your first quote.

by jj24 on Dec 17, 2011 6:22 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs

The logic is truly astounding.

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by Ogre39666 on Dec 17, 2011 6:50 PM EST up reply actions

Die By The Blade – Buffalo Sabres Blog for Intelligent Fans

I think Geo is a bit lost.

by FloridaBuffalo on Dec 17, 2011 7:17 PM EST up reply actions

haha.. ok ok folks.. let’s keep it civil now

Smile.. tomorrow will be worse.

by Calvin on Dec 17, 2011 7:27 PM EST up reply actions

4horrors

my cousin was at a bar in Moosejaw talking to some guys about bloggers and asked if they knew of any who were homosexuals….

by VFN FTW on Dec 17, 2011 9:41 PM EST up reply actions

Yeah, they should totally trade the rookie defenseman with the favorable contract who was their best player in the playoffs and leads the team in +/-, that would be smart. Seriously, it’s not just Relative Corsi (which is actually heavily influenced by a high Ozone start percentage), pretty much all the stats show that the Sabres are a much better team with Mags on the ice: just look at the 3.7 goals scored for every 60 min he plays, that’s the highest avg. on the team, better than even Vanek (3.64) and Pommers (3.54). And the 1.63 goals/60 min they give up while he’s on the ice is the lowest for any defenseman – not bad for a powerplay specialist who can’t play D. What I think is going on here is a certain mouthbreathing contingent of the Sabres fanbase equates “hitting” with “playing good defensive hockey.” Mags doesn’t do a lot of things on the ice that jump out at you (except for when he sends Claude Giroux off on a breakaway) but he is comfortable on the puck and allows the other players to get to the right places, which is invaluable.

by Frank Reich Revolution on Dec 17, 2011 6:09 PM EST reply actions 2 recs

What’s staggering to me is that Weber makes idiot plays and takes dumb unnecessary penalties, yet the same Sabres fans who criticize Gragnani are okay with that. Even though that led to the first Pittsburgh goal. So Gragnani screws up with Giroux and he should be traded immediately, while Weber basically gives one of the Pens goals to them. and that’s okay because he’s the second coming of Derian Hatcher. Weber basically projects as a defensive third pairing d-man. His ceiling is a solid, if unspectacular stay at home defenseman. Gragnani’s ceiling is much higher.

by Philaster on Dec 19, 2011 12:00 AM EST up reply actions

I’m a little bit higher than that on Weber; I think the main reason some people seem to favor Weber and McNabb over Mags is because they are actually physical, and there is something to be said for that. For me it boils down to which player gives the team a better chance to win, and so far the Sabres are a much better team when Mags is on the ice than when he’s not.

by Frank Reich Revolution on Dec 19, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions

Keep the faith.

That said, if someone comes calling with a big-time center or Bobby Ryan and wants Grags as the centerpiece, it wouldn’t consider it a deal breaker.

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by Ogre39666 on Dec 17, 2011 6:52 PM EST reply actions

Sure, but do you see that happening?

by Philaster on Dec 19, 2011 12:01 AM EST up reply actions

Teams are always looking for young, puck-moving defensemen.

Whether an actual team values Grags highly enough to target him as a centerpiece for their big-time center, I don’t know.

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by Ogre39666 on Dec 19, 2011 3:26 AM EST up reply actions

Grag, Sekera and soon Pysyk

The Sabres have two guys who can move the puck and one (or more) known for moving it in the minors. They all can’t play. (Myers is on that list, too, but he isn’t going anywhere.) One of those three will have to be traded. Half the question, is who do the Sabres want to keep? The other half is, does the other team in the trade offer enough to get the one they want?

by CGoetz on Dec 17, 2011 7:06 PM EST reply actions

Potentially

A nice problem to have! I think it might be premature on Mags and Pysyk, but might add in Brennan while we’re at it. But to your point, I think, is that a trade takes two teams to agree. If we suppose these guys are all going to be NHL ready then we may need to trade one to maximize our roster elsewhere (centre anyone?!). If that’s Mags and we can get something good in return then I’m OK with that.

by buffaloparks on Dec 17, 2011 11:53 PM EST via mobile up reply actions

Re: comparison to Sekera

Sekera can play PK and PP, and generally has to play hard to keep himself out of Lindy’s doghouse. Sure, he isn’t very physical, but he has developed into our best breakout skater on the blue line. He is still trying to shake his bad first impression.

Gragnani plays the PP but is (so far) not very good at defense, yet he seems to be immune to any blame from the coach for some reason. He is still enjoying the benefits of a great first impression. I hope he improves his defense because at the moment Ehrhoff offers enough offensive punch to make Gragnani relatively expendable, and until Grags becomes a better two-way player he should find himself in the press box when the team is healthy.

I think that pretty much sums up my biggest complaint with the way the team is managed (favoritism).

by lassathrax on Dec 18, 2011 1:07 AM EST reply actions

With all the statistical evidence that says otherwise (Corsi, goal differential)

I don’t think you can say he’s not good a defense – or if he is, he’s so amazing at offense that it makes up for it.

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by Ogre39666 on Dec 18, 2011 1:47 AM EST up reply actions

From watching the games, I definitely notice his giveaways and poor positional play more often than other defenders. The stats are influenced by his offense and by other players/goalies bailing out his mistakes.

by lassathrax on Dec 18, 2011 1:18 PM EST up reply actions

Ted Black is right

Yes, The numbers don’t look all that great. We have a lot of injuries and are still in a playoff position. Tough to develop chemistry when you have guys in and out of the line up. All of the call ups have played great. Vanek and Pommer have looked pretty good so far. We tend to expect too much from Gaustad. Get rid of Grag’s? Didn’t we say the same thing about Campbell? We still have a lot of time to get our sh*t together. Yes, last night sucked. Don’t jump ship yet. This team still has a lot of faults but there are a lot of games left.

by danabob on Dec 18, 2011 10:45 AM EST reply actions

And we missed Campbell greatly. Our PP still isn’t quite the same. He was IT when he was here. Gragnani should be discarded at our peril.

by Philaster on Dec 19, 2011 12:03 AM EST up reply actions

Hmmm

Sekera and Gragnani just don’t have the size to play “D” in the NHL. They can’t clear the crease nor win battles along the boards consistantly. Move them. Brayden McNabb has gotten better every game and with Myers, just don’t see the need for them. TJ Brennan has also looked good.

by Coach Bob on Dec 18, 2011 8:11 PM EST reply actions

Marc-Andre Gragnani: 6' 2", 201 lbs.

Andrej Sekera: 6’ 0", 201 lbs.
Dan Boyle: 5’ 11", 190 lbs.
Kris Letang: 6’ 0", 201 lbs.
Tobias Enstrom: 5’ 10", 180 lbs.
Brain Campbell: 5’ 10", 189 lbs.
Drew Doughty: 6’ 0", 212 lbs.
Mark Streit: 5’ 11", 193 lbs.
Paul Martin: 6’ 1", 200 lbs.
P.K. Subban: 6’ 0", 206 lbs.
Erik Karlsson: 6’ 0", 180 lbs.
Matt Niskanen: 6’ 0", 200 lbs.
John-Michael Liles: 5’ 10", 185 lbs.
Kieth Ballard: 5’ 11", 208 lbs.
Kevin Bieksa: 6’ 1", 198 lbs.
David Hamhuis: 6’ 1", 209 lbs.
Nicklas Lidstrom: 6’ 1", 192 lbs.

Clearly, Sekera and Gragnani are just not big enough to play D in the NHL.

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by Ogre39666 on Dec 18, 2011 8:49 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs

Size is fine, but if you had said SPEED....

Both the Leafs and the Pens looked like they were skating circles around our guys. It could be that we just need to pair any of our current D-men with someone with a little speed. Being out of position on occasion (part of the game — happens to everyone) won’t matter so much then.

by chin8tao on Dec 18, 2011 10:19 PM EST up reply actions

Except that Sekera is one of our best skaters. Gragnani is probably too young to judge in that regard.

by lassathrax on Dec 18, 2011 10:58 PM EST up reply actions

I'll plead ignorance.

Seriously wondering: Though Sekera is one of our best, is he good enough?

Also, I always thought Sekera was on the ice more for his offense. I haven’t been paying very close attention during the last few games. Who is our top defense pairing? I assume it’s Regher and somebody else (possibly Sekera, but I just don’t remember).

by chin8tao on Dec 20, 2011 10:26 AM EST up reply actions

Keep MAGs, Keep the Faith

He hasn’t even played a full season yet, and fans already want to ship him? WTF.

He was AHL Defenseman of the Year. He had a good playoffs, and now he leads us in +/-. Yeah, he makes boneheaded plays.

He’s a bloody rookie defenseman, what did you expect?!

But obviously he’s helping the Sabres more than hurting. Which makes me ask… how exactly? I don’t get to watch many games. He doesn’t score many goals, and he’s been on the ice for a fair few notable ones against. Is he just a master of the breakout, that leads to getting the puck in the opponent’s end of the ice?

I’d be curious to see him with Regher, although I know Lindsay wants Regher as part of a shutdown pair. MAGs + Ehrhoff seemed to work well earlier this year.

by kallinan on Dec 19, 2011 8:01 AM EST reply actions

I don’t really know how it happens either. Might just be good luck. I know a lot of times when I’ve seen the Sabres score, I see Gragnani join in on the goal celebration right afterwards when I had no idea he was even on the ice, necessarily.
I think part of the issue with the Sabres is that they have struggled with moving the puck. Think in recent years past where the Sabres have had trouble even gaining the zone on the power play. I think those are two areas where Gragnani has really helped the team.

by Philaster on Dec 19, 2011 9:59 AM EST up reply actions