Are Giveaways and Takeaways Accurate Statistics?

by David Oleksy on Oct 15, 2009 8:10 PM EDT

By now I think you have noticed that we are committed to bringing you more Buffalo Sabres statistical analysis than we have in the past. It's just another thing that is made possible because of the great tools that SB Nation gives us as well as the quality hockey blogs that are part of the SB Nation family helping us out. We will give you as much statistical information as we can but if you are a stat geek like I am, make sure to visit Behind the Net for your fix.

One of the NHL stats that I have been wondering about lately is the giveaway/takeaway stats. Many of you already know that we nicknamed Toni Lydman "Toni Turnover" (original huh?) last season. The funny thing is that the raw numbers don't really back that up the way I thought they would. Sure he was third on the team with turnovers but I would have thought he averaged more than one per game.

In actuality, these stats are very difficult to track because they vary from rink to rink. Unlike goals and assists, giveaways and takeaways are not a clear cut stat. Unfortunately different people will see things differently and therefore the numbers won't be accurate.

The first thing we need to do when determining a giveaway or a takeaway, is to know what we are looking for. Surely the NHL must have a definition of what is a giveaway and a takeaway.

Takeaway - By definition a takeaway occurs when pressure from the defending team results in a defending player gaining possession of the puck.
Giveaway - A giveaway is when a players own actions result in a loss of possession to the opposing team.

Now that we know the definition of a giveaway and takeaway we can take a loo at the Sabres stats through four games. Keep in mind the Sabres have played three games at home and one game on the road so far.

Opponent		Takeaways	Giveaways
vs	Montreal	9	9
vs	Phoenix	2	7
@	Nashville	10	5
vs	Detroit	4	13

It's only been four games so it's difficult to find a trend developing but isn't it odd that the Sabres have more giveaways than takeaways in two out of their three home games? As the numbers show the Sabres have 34 giveaways and 25 takeaways through four games. At home it is 29 giveaways to 15 takeaways. I have no idea if these numbers are anywhere near accurate and I'm guessing you don't either. I would definitely like to know.

For argument sake I have added the individual stats for giveaways and takeaways...

#	Player	Pos	Giveaway	Takeaway
4	Steve Montador	D	2	0
5	Toni Lydman	D	1	0
9	Derek Roy	C	2	1
10	Henrik Tallinder	D	1	1
13	Tim Kennedy	C	0	3
19	Tim Connolly	C	3	2
21	Drew Stafford	RW	1	2
25	Mike Grier	RW	0	1
26	Thomas Vanek	LW	2	2
28	Paul Gaustad	C	1	0
29	Jason Pominville	RW	2	2
34	Chris Butler	D	3	0
36	Patrick Kaleta	RW	2	0
37	Matt Ellis	C	2	0
41	Clarke MacArthur	LW	0	3
44	Andrej Sekera	D	4	2
52	Craig Rivet	D	1	2
55	Jochen Hecht	LW	1	4
57	Tyler Myers	D	5	0

Once again, I have no idea if these are accurate stats but they are what is listed as official by the NHL. I may be the only one that is curious but I want to know how accurate these statistics really are. If you are as interested as I am, I could use your help. I need you to count giveaways and takeaways in the next coming games and I will do the same. I will post our findings and compare those numbers to the NHL official statistics and see how things work out.

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Comments

What about scoring chances? That stat seems like it should be even with shots

by sween on Oct 15, 2009 9:57 PM EDT reply actions

I think what the NHL needs is a volunteer statistical organization, such as what happened in baseball in the early/mid 80s with Project Scoresheet, the group that eventually became Stats, Inc. I was actually part of the Yankees group for Project Scorsheet for the 1986 season. Not because I love the Yankees (I loathe them) but because they were the only team I could reliably get on tv every game. The more eyes you’ve got looking at a game, the more accurate your statistics are going to be.

"I could have conquered Europe, all of it, but I had women in my life." - King Henry II of England

by Calvert on Oct 15, 2009 10:27 PM EDT reply actions

My own hangup with this stat

is that it doesn’t tell you enough. Was the takeaway in the offensive zone, thus generating more potential scoring chances? Was the giveaway in the defensive zone, thus leading to more scoring chances for the other team? Do Neutral zone, middle-ice giveaways/takeaways necessarily mean anything in particular?

As an aggregate team statistic, I can see it being useful. Obviously you want to strive for more takeaways then giveaways as a team. But as an individual statistic, I struggle to see exactly what it means and its importance.

"Slide DiMaggio, slide!" "Hey, my name isn't DiMaggio, my name is mm..mmmm...mmm....mud."

by cmat on Oct 16, 2009 9:25 AM EDT reply actions

I've always found these two stats to be bogus

Any stat that is a matter of opinion is a joke. There are dozens of turnovers in a game, yet the scorer has no more than 18 for one game this year? It’s a ridiculous stat that doesn’t tell you anything about the game, or a player’s play. I mean, technically if a guy has his stick lifted in the slot attempting a shot, that’s a takeway for the other team. Probably never noted that way on the score sheet. But if it’s in front of his own net, probably noted.
As far as scoring chances go, I always thought that was a bs stat as well. How is one shot less of a chance than another. I get that it takes into account chances that don’t result in shots on goal, but it is completely the opinion of the official scorer.

"Potential just means you haven’t done sh## yet"

by willgarr15 on Oct 16, 2009 11:00 AM EDT reply actions